WEEKLY DISCUSSION 2.0 #2 - Philip-Lorca diCorcia

[cyanatic]

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<p>Phil S. -- <em>The act of framing or of waiting for a specific moment when certain elements come together is a way of 'staging',</em></p>

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<p><br /> <em><br /></em>Good point. Yes, absolutely. Something else I failed to mention when talking about "staged". I think my initial "instinct" or appreciation for staged vs the allegedly "unstaged" has already undergone a change, largely as the result of further thoughts and comments gleaned from this very thread. Another reason I so appreciate some of the better, more thoughtful discussions that occur on PN. If I stay locked into my own initial responses and opinions, I am doomed to limit both my own work and my appreciation of the work of others.</p>

[Norma Desmond]

<p>Steve, thanks for your supportive words and thoughts on diCorcia, etc. I was looking for a contemporary photographer I didn't know and googled around and was struck by his work, which I hadn't seen before. I was drawn to it because he does some things I've also been playing with in my own work, which you mentioned.</p>

<p>I appreciate your ideas about staged work and want to add that, though I've described and explained many of the ways I think staged work can be moving and effective and why I rarely see it as deceptive (unless it's trying to pass as photojournalism or news), I don't put it in competition with candid street work. I'm glad, as I sense you are, they both exist. As a matter of fact, I had a love for street work long before I started practicing the more intentional types of portraits and other work I do. For me, exposing myself to good candid work has been vital in deepening my understanding of spontaneity. I often want even my most staged work to have elements of spontaneity, though there have been times when I've wanted a more stiff and uptight feel. (Sometimes—LOL—I get that even when I'm not trying for it!) There's also a kind of energy that good street work has that can be breathed into work that's more set up.</p>

<p>To be clear, whether diCorcia's photos are staged or not doesn't matter to me as a viewer but as a photographer, any information like that is interesting to know and learn from. I think there are other photos where it would matter more to me to learn that the photo was not the result of a moment that came together on its own but rather at the direction or by the creation of the photographer. It wouldn't necessarily be better or worse, but it would be different. A photo that expresses serendipity, for example, might seem very much different to me were I to learn that what I thought was an actual moment of serendipity turned out to be something that had been planned or created. When it comes to these discussions about certain practices and certain genres of photos, I find it best not to generalize but rather to react to each situation individually. I sense that many of us operate that way.</p>

[Allen Herbert]

<p>Interesting.</p>

<p>In a way i see his work as just stills from a film and in another way he uses colour like BW to emphasize a mystery and remoteness from the photos in a way to remove the colour..</p>

[Mark Z]

<p>Knowing some things about a photo, such as the degree of staging, the lighting setup, and the intent of the photographer can indeed be interesting to know. One thing that I've been wondering about is the title of the series. From the links that have been provided, it looks like the <em>Cuba Libre</em> series was meant to be an art-fashion production. I sense that the series title was not random, that it ties in somehow with the photos, and possibly it offers information about what diCorcia was trying to achieve. I wonder what Cuba needed to be freed of. Maybe diCorcia wanted to free viewers of their conceptions of what Cuba was, by showing something edgy or beautiful or modern next to something more stereotypically Cuban or Latino. I see this in some of the photos that have been linked to. I'd like to hear other thoughts about this.</p>

[Norma Desmond]

<p>Mark, <em>Cuba Libre</em> is also the name for a rum and coke and it was the battle cry for Cuban liberation at the end of the 1800s. The phrase may have been chosen for its various connotations and cultural associations. Entertainment and bars seem to be of some significance in the work and Cuba's independence would be a source of national pride.</p>

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<p>Maybe diCorcia wanted to free viewers of their conceptions of what Cuba was, by showing something edgy or beautiful or modern next to something more stereotypically Cuban or Latino.</p>

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<p>Interesting observation, Mark. I hadn't thought of this. <br /> <br /> Picking up on your notion of freeing the viewer, I like to think it could also be that he wanted to free viewers of their expectations of the reality of what he was shooting. He seems to be inviting or allowing us to <em>imagine</em> alongside and along with his "characters". Maybe it's his own kind of liberation, freeing himself, his subjects, and viewers and in this way connecting us all on an emotional and more picturesque level playing off the realities which often confine us.</p>

[aplumpton]

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<p>in another way he uses colour like BW to emphasize a mystery and remoteness from the photos in a way to remove the colour.</p>

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<p>Interesting comment, Allen. In away this shows the extent to which this image can be construed as art as much as a more direct journalistic result. Dicorcia is showing us what he feels about this scene and the people in it.</p>

<p>Ever since General De Gaulle, after following (in a sort of pilgrimage context) the old "route of the king" (Chemin du Roi) between Quebec City and Montreal, came out with his famous quote: "Vive le Québec, Vive le Québec...libre", the association of "libre" with a constitutional position of a territory has meant something political to recent generations. I guess that the 19th century cry "Cuba Libre" has a similar context. But is that the only one? Fred, do you think that it might be possible that "free" or freedom might be a more personal and less of a political thing in the photo series (which I have not seen) of Di Corcia? In that case, might not the characters in the image be manifesting a personal freedom that might not be so prevelant in a Castro or Batista Cuba? The relationship of the characters to each other and their environment is hardly organized and they seem to be free in their own personal worlds.</p>

[Norma Desmond]

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<p>is that the only one? Fred</p>

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<p>I don't think so. As I said: <em>"</em><em>The phrase may have been chosen for its various connotations."</em> Among those I considered were Mark's initial idea of freeing the viewer of their conceptions of Cuba. I mentioned that <em>Cuba Libre</em> is also the name of a drink, which would be a fun play on words since the scene is a bar. I also considered that <em>Cuba Libre</em> could reference something like <em>"freeing himself, his subjects, and viewers and in this way connecting us all on an emotional and more picturesque level playing off the realities which often confine us."</em> In other words, establishing or exposing realities and imagining, through his photographic style, beyond those realities. I think your additional idea of <em>"the personal freedoms that might not be so prevalent in a Castro or Batista Cuba" </em>might well be at play and is a great way to understand it as well.</p>

[Landrum Kelly]

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<p>Fred -- Thanks so much for bringing this feature back. Rather than bemoan "the decline of PN!" you have just gone out and attempted to do something about engaging the members here. And this is the type of thougtful thread I most appreciate. The thought, aesthetics, philosophy, strategy (call it what you will) of photography or of a given photograph. (As opposed to "how did DiCorcia do this?" or "what camera did he use?" "Is it film or digital?") --Steve Gubin</p>

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<p>Well said, Steve. It is almost as if Fred were facing the Goliath of social media, hurling his stone at its forehead, and saying, "I'll bet you can't do this!"</p>

<p>It cannot, of course. When Fred starts a thread, it is as if one were going from <em>People</em> magazine to <em>The Saturday Review. </em>The number of readers might not be great, but who cares? It's great stuff, arguably as good as anything to be found on Photo.net.<em><br /></em></p>

<p>--Lannie</p>