VERY Poorly packed expensive camera from B&H

[ray .]

For a half an hour I've been livid, now I'm starting to calm down.

 

I was looking forward to receiving a brand new Leica M240 today to use over the weekend, and did

receive it, but looking at the way it was packed, I am flabbergasted. I can see throwing in some bubble

wrap and not having it secure around the box for a much cheaper item, but when the camera costs $6400,

I should expect more, shouldn't I?

 

Two sides of the camera box were flush up against the outer shipping box, which was by the way, too

flimsy to expect it not to get crushed. When I saw the box arrive with half of it looking like an accordion,

I thought, well, I hope the inside is well cushioned. It wasn't.

 

I have always had good experience with B&H, but I guess I wasn't paying enough attention to the packaging

of $100 items. This has the look of the shipping box being on a conveyor belt, one guy tosses the camera box

in, then tosses in some bubble wrap, then it's one quick tape and gone.

 

Additionally concerning is that the outer 'white' manufacturer's protective box around the inner camera box has

obviously been opened, since the scotch tape has been broken. This protective box's lid is also dog eared and

half detached. The Leica silver box, the condition of which potentially affects a re-sale, has been damaged

in transit due to the quick pack job. Frankly, I'm shocked at this experience, because I had decided not to go to

a small dealer or get a used camera, but to spend the extra money and be safe with a brand new item. I'm not even

sure if this camera was opened and returned and sold as new.

 

B&H has issued me a pre-paid return label and a $25 gift certificate when I called a 2nd time, but this remains a

very big disappointment and a big surprise. I didn't do an exchange for another camera because frankly, from

this one experience, not sure if I trust them any longer.

 

It's possible this is standard procedure for other big camera dealers, but if that's the case, I just don't get it.

The rep on the phone told me packages are inspected by 3 different people. Maybe their standards are a bit

low. This wasn't a $100 battery they were packing.

[GerrySiegel]

When I get a mishandled box in shipment, or it seems it was not packed for a 5000 mile trip to Oahu, I try to make a digital photo of the box and the contents and let the vendor know what it looks like by attachment, as well as a view of the contents and packing.... It helps them (and you) make your case. I know from years of buying experience that B and H responds to comments like yours and, better, they value photo evidence that they can take to the carrier and their own mail room. Customer service is a big part of their outfit, with full time employees. Roy, I do not agree that this is standard practice and I would think of i it as one- or two- off situation. I have had a couple, yes, over long haul, but not many considering the volume of goods big and pricey bought over the years from B and H and Adorama, one or two others

 

Mostly box damage turns out to be a carrier problem in handling..But padding may not be up to the job and I show and tell them... I return it even if the camera inside 'seems' to be intact, like why take a chance...

 

 

I sympathize with your discouraged feeling expecting to get the gear in action by now. Bummer feeling.

 

Good to remember thought that B and H also ships $20,000 Schneider PL lenses to the movie industry with tight deadlines and schedule for shooting risks. Not to mention wedding pros...Yeah Roy, I say give them a chance to make it right.

 

Anyone else have a comment on New York online packing and shipping? Any overall assessment?

[ray .]

Their customer service line is closed now until tomorrow, but now I'm thinking maybe just see if the camera functions flawlessly. It's in a very tight padded case from the manufacturer so it should be fine. The outer white protective box I really don't care about, other than wondering why it had been opened. The damage to the corner of the silver box though would likely make a sale of the camera when used less valuable because it IS a selling point to have it looking clean and undamaged. So if the camera works with no problems, I wonder if they would just replace the silver Leica box or if that would be possible, assuming no problems with the camera itself.

[GerrySiegel]

Even our friendly postal carrier was embarassed to deliver a set of cabinet lights and bulbs in such distressed state.. Does label fragile help or hurt.. But contents survived even with shredded paper for packing...<div></div>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<p>Poor packaging by a major retailer resulted in my newly acquired used AF-S Nikkor 17-55/2.8 malfunctioning within the first minute of me trying it out some six years ago. Luckily, I had no problems returning it, getting a refund - but had to purchase another copy that was slightly more expensive - and arrived properly packed.<br /><br /><br>

The box didn't actually show damage - it was just that the lens was allowed to pretty much bounce around in it rather freely. And despite having the reputation of being "built like a tank" didn't survive the trip and refused to autofocus straight away.</p>

<p>There's just no way I would keep a Leica M that arrived in a shipping container that shows impact damage and upon opening reveals that the contents weren't properly packaged and are now resting against the container without cushioning material in between. The rangefinder is rather delicate and can be put out of alignment quite easily - so I wouldn't be surprised if the new camera already needs an adjustment.</p>

[stephen t]

<p>I would take B&H up on their offer of a refund and gift certificate.</p>

<p>I have purchased from them for many years. Occasionally something might come in not packed as well as I would have packed it, but it made the trip. I'm fairly certain the shipping handlers don't enjoy seven figure compensation packages. As long as you receive good customer service, I would be inclined to give them another opportunity.</p>

<p>"Rattling around inside the box" is often the way I receive items ordered from Amazon! </p>

<p>By the way, I would be somewhat livid myself, but not for as long as I would have been several years ago! Best wishes and enjoy your Leica. I personally would be patient, use something else this weekend, and get another one with pristine packaging. </p>

 

[ray .]

Here are photos of the condition upon arrival:<div></div>

[ray .]

<div></div>

[ray .]

<div></div>

[ray .]

This is the silver box that holds the case with shelves that hold the camera and accessories. Usually these are shown in good condition to enhance the sale of a used Leica M240.<div></div>

[lex_jenkins]

That is unusual for B&H. I've received kitty

litter from Amazon that was better packaged - not

kidding.

 

I've received similarly packaged items from B&H

that were not fragile. But never a camera or

lens, etc. And even with relatively sturdy items

Adorama has been using inflatable heat-seal

padded envelopes.

 

 

I'd go for the exchange offer. As Dieter noted

I'd be worried about the rangefinder alignment.

[ray .]

I just noticed that the case inside the silver box also has damage on the corner, which makes sense.

 

Only reason I have been tempted to try to keep the camera is because I already had to return my first one

to another dealer last week (not the dealer's fault) because of electronic issues the camera had. So if this

copy of the body itself stayed safe inside its foam formed box and works perfect, I hate to go back again

and try another one that might not.... I don't think B&H will or may even be able to replace just the boxes

though.

[ray .]

Lex, this makes no sense for them- because I assume they're losing money on it if I return or exchange.

What I found odd is that the customer service rep insisted that they pack professionally and there are

three people inspecting packages before they go out. I told him they must have all been on a break, or

smoking some real good stuff. I understand that UPS handles boxes roughly, but come on- the box itself

isn't sturdy enough let alone the packing inside.

 

To be honest the $25 gift certificate is an insult for a $6400 purchase. Maybe I'm too sensitive.

[User_2000406]

<p>B&H is usually good about packing, but I've had a couple of shipments in the last year where the minimal bubble wrap was loose and not protecting anything. Expensive items (Zeiss lens, for instance) were loose in the box. Nothing was damaged, but I was concerned and checked the items carefully including testing the lens.</p>

[ray .]

The firmware could be updated easily enough, but the firmware that's on the camera came out at the end

of 2013, so it's a few steps behind. I thought updating the firmware before shipment might be a reason for

the tape on the box to be slit. No idea what part of this may be standard procedure.

[denny_rane]

<p>I have shipped A LOT of stuff, and my experience is.......many,many people Do Not know how to Pack/Ship.<br>

If at all possible, you should double box. Peanuts are Almost, but not quite, completely useless. If they are used, they should be contained in a bag...never just left loose in the box.. Bubble wrap and good old newspaper make great packing materials.<br>

I just bought a Very Nice F3 from KEH. They shipped it without a body cap, because....."There was no cap in the picture".! They screwed up a great looking camera, because their photos did not show a cheap piece of plastic..... an Item they have dozens of, laying around in boxes. It could have been any cap.....Generic, Pentax, Minolta, Pink, Blue, Cracked in half and held together with scotch tape.....whatever. Only an idiot would ship a very nice condition, 250 dollar F3 with no cap.<br>

Is your camera packed properly.? There is an EASY way to tell. Stand on your driveway, hold the box over your head, and drop it on the concrete. If you are not comfortable doing THAT, your camera is not packed well.<br>

good luck</p>

[dhbebb]

<p><em>Is your camera packed properly.? There is an EASY way to tell. Stand on your driveway, hold the box over your head, and drop it on the concrete. If you are not comfortable doing THAT, your camera is not packed well.</em><br>

Absolutely. My standard is very stiff card, thick enough to be almost impossible to bend, for prints, documents etc. which are not breakable but must not be bent, and at least 30mm of bubble wrap, a stout carton and waste material like peanuts, shredded paper or screwed-up newspaper to stop movement in the box for items which are at all fragile.<br>

Ray should return the camera - for some reasons logistics systems seem to need the return of items even if just a small accessory is missing. I am sure the replacement delivery will be ok - if not, he can immediately ask for a full refund.</p>

[c_watson1]

<p><em>This is the silver box that holds the case with shelves that hold the camera and accessories. Usually these are shown in good condition to enhance the sale of a used</em> Leica<em> M240.</em><br>

<em> </em><br>

<em><br /></em>So how's the camera, Ray? </p>

[donald_miller5]

Hate to say it but could be worse. One time I received the carton nicely folded and packed in a plastic bag with a note

from the postal service. The product in it was pilfered by a postal employee and the post office basically responded oh

well.

[ken_jeanette1]

<p>I purchase for our company, and we use B and H for a lot of items, large and small. I've never received an item that wasn't overpacked. In fact, sometimes it's aggravating to have to wade through the oodles of bubble pack they use. But always packed very well to protect the items. I'd definitely return the item, because you never know when some concealed damage is going to rear its ugly head, and with a $6400 precision instrument, that becomes even more important. As far as the truckers handling the goods, that is a complete disaster. I've received so many packages that appear to have been put through a crusher I can't count them, and it's not limited to one carrier. They want to move volume, forget that it might be a cherished or delicate item.</p>

[ellis_vener_photography]

Was B&H's tape around the shipping box disturbed before you opened it? If so it may mean someone opened it up

somewhere in transit. Document all the damage.

[ray .]

<b>C Watson,</b> the camera itself and accessories seem to be fine, which is the only thing that had me

considering just keeping it. <p>

 

<b>Ken,</b> agreed, I was thinking the same thing- even though the camera appears unscathed I don't

know what kind of impact it may have had in transit. Then again you never know what may have happened to any item before it's delivered.<p>

 

<b>Ellis,</b> yours was also the first question from the customer service rep, but no, certainly doesn't appear to

have been opened in transit. In addition to the shipping box being too flimsy, it is much too small to contain an adequate buffer.

[aplumpton]

<p>A valid concern on poor shipping of such an expensive item. I hope our friendly an active member from B&H administration will research the reasons for this (hopefully rare) and take measures to convince Photo Net members that the control of the quality of shipping will improve.</p>

<p>I purchased small items from B&H recently (two filters and a plastic lens hood cap) and they came quickly and in a very well packed box, but obviously some employees in the shipping section, or their boss, were sleeping on this one. I think I would be tempted to get permission to send it back (paid by B&H) and request a new unit and proper packing and delivery to reduce any concerns about handling.</p>

[ray .]

Btw on the phone I asked to speak to a manager to let them know for their own benefit, if nothing else, that this kind of

negligence happened in their shipping department. This because the only response I had gotten and continued to get was an apology and that they packed professionally, and he would let the shipping department know, repeated several times.

[henryp]

<blockquote>

<p>Btw on the phone I asked to speak to a manager to let them know for their own benefit, if nothing else, that this kind of negligence happened in their shipping department.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Please email me - henryp[at]bhphoto.com - with the original B&H order number. The first of your three pictures strongly suggests UPS mishandled the package while it was in transit. Whether the problem was due to that or not, I am very sorry for the inconvenience and frustration. </p>

<blockquote>

<p>...now I'm thinking maybe just see if the camera functions flawlessly. It's in a very tight padded case from the manufacturer so it should be fine.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Have you had a chance to test the camera? Would you prefer to return it for another? FWIW most new cameras and lenses are so well protected by the manufacturer's internal packing we could simply wrap one in Kraft paper and ship it with complete confidence. <br>

Either way, we want to conclude this so your pleasure at owning and using the camera AND your confidence in B&H are both undiminished.</p>

<p>Henry Posner<br /><strong>B&H Photo-Video</strong></p>