oiling the squeeky gear the "correct" way

[reynold]

<p>Hi,<br>

I want to oil the gear in the mirror assembly in a dead AE1 as practice. Also, I don't want to use the "quick" syringe method, which I have done on another camera.<br>

According to the National Camera Repair notes I have to remove the <strong>front plate and mirror cage</strong>. Is this really necessary if I am only going to oil the gear and any other parts? In other words, instead of going from one extreme to another is there a middle way? I can understand removing the cage if I am going to replace parts, but just to oil and lube the components?<br>

If push comes to shove I will attempt to unsolder all the wires as prescribed, but it seems a lot to do just to oil the gears in the mirror assembly. <br>

Any advice will be gratefully received.<br>

Thanks,<br>

Reynold</p>

[awahlster]

<p>More cameras have been turned in parts units doing this then any other thing you can do with a Canon A series camera according to my repair guy. I'm sure others will argue with me but I been on Canon FD forums since 2000 and I would agree with him.</p>

[gordon_yee]

<p>There have been several quick & dirty methods devised for lubricating the mirror damper, such as from underneath after removing the base plate and through the screw hole used to hold the front decorator plate in place. Personally, I find these methods to be too hit-and-miss. Removing the top cover gives better access and visibility. It requires more effort and, if you're a klutz, presents more opportunity to do futher damage. One added advantage is the ability to clean the viewfinder eyepiece and prism, if needed. Here's a great shot of the mirror damper itself:</p>

<p><a href="

<p>... and here's a link to Rick Oleson's helpful notes:</p>

<p><a href="http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-157.html">http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-157.html</a></p>

<p>For tutorials on removing the top covers of various cameras, including the Canon A series, take a look at the following link:</p>

<p><a href="http://looscanons.com/tutorials/index2.html">http://looscanons.com/tutorials/index2.html</a></p>

[JDMvW]

<p>I'm with Mark.<br>

The Canon squeak is a real problem, but the amounts of oil actually ever needed in a camera are closer to zero than to whatever is likely to be put into it. <br>

In my case, I have had a couple of Canons with the squeak, but without any intervention except a little exercise of the camera they were all miraculously cured. <br>

Exorcism is probably more effective than oil. <br>

"Begone foul demon squeak in the name of Kwanon!"</p>

[reynold]

<p>Thanks, JDM, but how could this be since the squeak suggests a dried-out part? Anyway, I want an excuse to go "into" the junk camera! But the correct way, of course.</p>

<p>Reynold</p>

[reynold]

<p>Hi Mark and Gordon.<br>

I replied to both of you but I obviously didn't hit the correct key, so here goes again. The camera I'm working on is a dud, so no harm in trying to open it up. Besides, I have so many FD cameras that I could never afford to have them all repaired. And how would I know if the repairman used the syringe method or opened up the camera and did a full job?</p>

<p>Thanks Gordon for the links. I found the photo of the damper very useful as well as the link to the tops of the cameras.<br>

Reynold</p>

<p>Reynold</p>

[JDMvW]

<blockquote>

<p>since the squeak suggests a dried-out part</p>

</blockquote>

<p><em>suggests</em>? it "suggests" rubbing, but that is not necessarily "dried out".<br>

Do what you want, take it apart, but the amount of oil that will be held by the tip of a pin or needle is probably a life-time supply for any camera.</p>

[rick_janes]

Reynold, your AE-1 is dead anyway so what better opportunity to practice this repair yourself?

But do take care in selecting the new lubricant especially if all traces of the old cannot be removed. Incompatible

lubricants can react to create nasty stuff like hard soaps that actually increase friction!

[reynold]

<p>Thanks JDM and Rick.<br>

Good advice JDM about the minimal amount of lubricant. Also thanks Rick about the warning concerning different lubricants. Will clean and remove before re-lubricating.<br>

I guess Rick, hope remains eternal, and I keep thinking that just maybe the camera can be "saved", and hence the original question: do I really have to remove the cage in order to lubricate its parts?<br>

But as your reply reminded me, I have to remember why I first bought it: to practise on it.<br>

<br />Reynold</p>

 

[User_4136860]

<p>The correct way to remedy the situation is to have a professional camera technician service the camera. </p>

[reynold]

<p>Thanks for the advice, but it doesn't answer my question on the need to remove the mirror cage completely. Besides, as I stated, I have too many FD cameras needing service.</p>

[alan_swartz]

<p>Reynold,</p>

<p>Years ago, as I learned to make repairs on FD cameras, I used to respond here to people's repair questions, but grew weary of the censures that generally followed; it was either morally, ethically, professionally, or mechanically wrong, or I or another soul was certain to doom a camera to inevitable death, whose value had by that time fallen to a pittance anyway. People had already stopped sending $30 AE-1's in for $69 CLA's anyway. But I will stick my neck out again and attempt to answer your question, if memory will serve.</p>

<p>The squeaky mirror damper flywheel--not a gear--is located with the rest of the mechanism on the outside of the mirror cage, on the shutter-release side of the camera, near the top. It can be reached with a bent hypodermic needle through the upper lens bayonet mounting screw hole, as it lies just behind and below that screw hole. For what it's worth, I purchased such an oiling syringe prepared by a camera technician roughly 15 years ago, which included precise instructions for finding the flywheel shaft's bushing by feel with the needle. I applied a miniscule--yes, miniscule: 1ml is a lifetime supply for 50 cameras--droplet of oil to two A-1's, an AE-1, two AE-1P's, and a handful of other A-somethings I've now forgotten, none of which have ever squeaked since or displayed any side effect from the treatment. (There are mushrooms growing on the shutter curtains, but I don't think that's related.)</p>

<p>As I recall, once the leatherette is off, there are screws straight in from the front of the camera that retain the mirror cage, which has flanges that mate with the front casting of the body. I do not recall any access to the sides or bottom of the cage without removing the whole thing from the body. I may be wrong. It's been a long time. But I think National would have indicated another method if it were possible.</p>

<p>Standard disclaimer: anyone who goes into a camera with inadequate skills, poor tools, insufficient knowledge, bad luck, or simply makes a mistake, might ruin it. I never felt it was the forum's job to pass judgment on anyone's skills. You take your chances. Just because some people can't do it doesn't mean that no one can do it. Reynold has clearly stated that he has a junk camera bought specifically for practice...just as the camera repair books recommend. Have fun!</p>

[reynold]

<p>Thank you Alan. I have used the syringe method with, I think, a positive result, but I just don't feel comfortable if I can't see what I am doing. That is why I want to do it the 'correct" way.<br>

Your point is well taken -- if there had been a different way National would have described it. So in the coming weeks I will try to open up to the mirror cage. If nothing else it will be an exploration into the unknown for me! I'm hoping this exercise will guide me when I tackle the "good" cameras, or I'll chicken out and use the syringe.<br>

Thanks again, Alan for your advice.</p>

<p>Reynold</p>

[gordon_yee]

<p>+1 with respect to Alan's comments. My sentiments exactly ...</p>

[User_4136860]

<p>I was a professional photo journalist for almost thirty years and always considered having my equipment professionally serviced as part of the expense of my photography, and although I have the service manuals for all my cameras the more I look at them they are so mechanically and electronically complex the more I think I would rather attempt brain surgery on one of my children than attempt top service them, I'm a camera operator not a repairer, and it's a wise man who knows his own limitations. </p>

[reynold]

<p>Truth is, Ben, I am an amateur and a dabbler, and getting more interested in the machinery than in their use. If there were courses on camera repair in my city I would take them, but there aren't.</p>

<p>Reynold</p>

[mwmcbroom]

<p>Well, I read through the thread to this point with some interest. I took a camera repair course about 25 years ago, which was not comprehensive, but which was enough to teach me the basics such that I knew basic technique when it comes to repairs. With all the thousands of different variations of a complex technology, there's no way any camera repair course can be comprehensive.</p>

<p>I learned from another Canon tech the exact method described by Alan Schwartz. The guy even gave me a complementary bent needle syringe, which I used for years. Nowadays I have a supply of diabetic syringes that will last several lifetimes, so I'm covered for A-series repairs. Recently, I really got to put to use this knowledge. For the past few years, I've had a gradual accumulation of A-series cameras occur as I've bought outfits in pursuit of one item or another in these outfits. I had probably a half-dozen A-series cameras I wanted to sell that exhibited the squeak, so I used Alan's method to lubricate their flywheels. Incidentally, the advice an earlier poster gave about cycling the shutter a couple of dozen times after oiling is good. Reason being that sometimes it just takes a while for the oil to migrate down to where its most needed. I think this is where some people get into trouble with over-oiling. They don't hear an immediate improvement so they give it another squirt, and another, etc.</p>

 

[reynold]

<p>Thanks Michael. Perhaps when I get to oiling my usable A1s I'll play safe and use the syringe, but on my practice dead AE1 I want to open it up. I have nothing to lose and lots to learn.</p>

<p>Reynold</p>

[mwmcbroom]

<p>Reynold, if I were in your situation, I would also try Alan's approach, where I could visually observe how and where to point the syrynge. That way it would be possible, perhaps with some practice, to do the procedure just through the mount hole.</p>

[flavio_egoavil]

<p>+1 to Alan's comments. <br>

There is more than one "quick and dirty" (i.e. non-mirror-box-removing) fix. One is Alan's, another is Rick Oleson's, here is my method which I posted on the internet, way back in 2001. Here i indicate the exact point where, by just spraying some drops of WD40, the squeak would be solved for years. Did it to my A-1 with no problems at all way back in 2001, the camera still works as today (as of 2015 -- so it's about 14 years).<br>

http://www.baytan.org/prak/pic/a1grease.gif<br /><br />Yes, it is just caused by lack of lubrication on a specific flywheel. On the GIF above I indicate the point where the mechanism can be easily re-lubricated, using a common WD40 can, the one that comes with the straw. WD40 is a mix of kerosene -which will loosen the gummed-up lubricant, and extremely light lubricant.<br>

The point I indicate has no electronics around, by the way.</p>

<p> </p>

[reynold]

<p>Thank you Flavio. As I stated, when it comes to my precious A1s I may well follow Alan's and/or your suggestions.</p>

<p>Reynold</p>

[reynold]

<p>Well, I'm glad to announce that I finally got the mirror cage off. After un-soldering the wires as instructed by the National Camera Repair I couldn't remove the cage and so I left it on my desk and would return for the odd jiggling. Success came when I used two thin strips of plastic cut from an old Visa card to lift the land over the LED pins. I don't think I broke or tore anything but time will tell. It was a good learning experience.<br>

Reynold</p><div></div>

[glen_h]

<blockquote>

<p>The correct way to remedy the situation is to have a professional camera technician service the camera</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>There are many working cameras out there for low prices, so in most cases it isn't worth paying much to fix one that isn't.</p>

<p>I bought an FTb with 50/1.8 lens for $11. It seems to work just fine. It might be nice to have someone look at it, but I probably can't afford doing any work on it.</p>

<p>I do have some other cameras which don't work as well, and are probably worth paying someone to look at. Maybe not as much as a full CLA, though. </p>

[flavio_egoavil]

<p>I see you were very brave and stripped down the whole machine.<br>

<br />To be honest, that's a very risky proposition unless you are an experienced camera tech. My "quick fix" method only requires the removal of the bottom plate and it is applying the WD40 in the specific point required. So less risky.</p>

<p>In any case, since you have stripped it down that far, take an opportunity to clean the prism from the bottom, as well. Enjoy your AE-1, a very nice camera.</p>

[reynold]

<p>Hi Flavio,<br>

Yes, I know it's risky, but the camera was bought as a door stopper to be used for just such an action. IF [and that's a big one] I succeed to put it all back again <em><strong>and it works</strong></em>, that would be a day to ring the bells. Nonetheless I am learning a lot about the Canon Ae1, and I also intend to do all the necessary oiling just in case it works.<br>

One thing I did discover was that there is a risk of putting excess oil because there are two slots through which the oil can reach the mirror.<br>

Right now I am learning about all the parts and how they work when a photo is taken.<br>

Thanks for your interest,<br>

Reynold</p>