Matthew Currie Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 <p>I would just like to point out that most people consider Bach an artist ( I would), but Bach also thought enough of Vivaldi to steal his stuff. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norma Desmond Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 <p>Great point, Matthew, and there's the famous quote by Picasso:</p> <blockquote> <p>Good artists copy, great artists steal.</p> </blockquote> <p>It's significant that Bach may have stolen, but I wouldn't accuse him of merely copying. I think the difference between copying/imitating and stealing is that when one steals one makes it their own. I can't think of an artist who hasn't taken from what's come before him. In many ways, art is just that kind of dialogue among artists across generations. But artists tend to build on another's vision or in some way personalize it, which I believe Bach did as evidenced by the fact that it's really easy to tell the difference between a piece by Vivaldi and a piece by Bach. They each have a very distinctive voice. As I look through the landscapes linked in the OP, I don't see stuff I'd consider personal or distinctive. </p> We didn't need dialogue. We had faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rconey Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 <p>Oh, God do I have to read through all these responses ( I perused 40% or so). I am still going out hiking where I can. Carry a camera. Thank god my day job still pays the bills.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rconey Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 <p>Oh, that sounds ugly. Well maybe I am just really glad in this environment that I don't have to make a living with landscape photography. The occasional great shot I get would not keep me out of the tent.</p> <p>When I look at my history I have a history of killing threads (at least being the last to comment). Again?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrum Kelly Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 <blockquote> <p>It's bad because it's bad.</p> </blockquote> <p>Aw, don't sugarcoat it, Fred.</p> <p>--Lannie</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Currie Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 <p>Fred, not to get too far off on a tangent, but Bach actually took several Vivaldi concertos and transposed them from orchestra to keyboard with virtually no change at all. Now I happen really to like the transpositions, but really they're note for note Vivaldi.</p> <p>I may be wrong, but I suspect no great artist has grabbed quite so large a bite of Kinkade.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norma Desmond Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 <p>Matthew, no doubt. The point would be, to me, that if that's ALL Bach did, transpose the works of Vivaldi, I'd hold him in much lower esteem. That he's done that as PART of his own body of work makes good sense, especially as these kinds of rewrites for various instruments have become a part of the classical music canon. Busoni, for example, is someone very well known for his transpositions of Bach's violin work to the piano. Generally, I don't like the piano versions as much as the originals, but they are well done and sometimes give the music a new kind of insight and, as a pianist myself, I'm glad they're available even if not as good as the originals.</p> <p>There's the shot for shot remake of Psycho by Gus Van Sant, who's no slouch of a film director by any means. Again, though, part of why he gets away with doing Psycho is because he's proven himself in his own work to be able to pay homage to Psycho and be taken seriously.</p> <p>As I think I said somewhere above, originality is not the be-all and end-all of art, so I don't mean to dwell on the lack of originality in the OP links. It's the sugary sweetness, the lack of individuality and personality, the often completely expected visuals that are a big part of the problem. There's much art, to me, that has a simple beauty. These do not. They have kind of glossy and shallow sweetness that I don't find beautiful at all.</p> We didn't need dialogue. We had faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Currie Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 <p>I quite agree, Fred, and my main point here was to defend Vivaldi from the charge of being something less than an artist.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_k. Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 <p>Just wanted to add that Vivaldi died in poverty, as his music went out of style and wealthy patrons disappeared during his lifetime. Popularity, or lack of it, is not an absolute measure of artistry.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Cavan Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 <p>Well, if we are taking poverty at death as an indication of artistry...</p> <p>http://www.newser.com/story/143838/kinkade-9m-in-debt-when-he-died.html</p> <p>just sayin'</p> Dave Cavan https://davecavanphotographics.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan2240 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 <p>He certainly seems to have behaved like a true 'artist.' Kind of a sad story really, no matter what one thinks of his paintings.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB_Gallery Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I like articles like this by not photographers but an "IT Guy" who is complaining his work can not break new ground among all the candy coated and double dipped in chocolate sauce amateur cliches. And like most camera enthusiasts he has not a clue who is really killing it in landscape work in terms of income. That's good....that is certainly the way I like it! Meanwhile, after shooting landscapes as part of my full time life / career as a photographer, I am doing financially better than ever, more excited than ever and find far more fresh images than ever. Time to go fire up my darkroom, need to make some 20x24's for a new show...;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_Lookingbill Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 <blockquote> <p>Meanwhile, after shooting landscapes as part of my full time life / career as a photographer, I am doing financially better than ever, more excited than ever and find far more fresh images than ever.<br> Time to go fire up my darkroom, need to make some 20x24's for a new show...;-)</p> </blockquote> <p>And we now have a new thread killer contender over Robert. ;)</p> <p>Competition is good.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrum Kelly Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 <p>We're glad <a href="/photo/14143094"><em><strong>you're </strong></em><em><strong><em>d</em>oing well and have transcended clichés</strong></em></a>, Daniel. We really are, since there is obviously nothing "candy coated and double dipped in chocolate sauce" in your work.</p> <p>As you say in the attached, "The digital age has brought a lot of attitude. . . ."</p> <p>Yep. Damn that digital.</p> <p>I am particularly inspired by your good-bye:</p> <blockquote> <p>But people like me and the vast majority of successful professionals who will never post here know better. We keep living it, our work just gets better and the line of demarcation between what a pro does and an amateur does just keeps getting bigger and bigger. So there is nothing left for me here, I do not stand to benefit in any way from "sharing" my work or my knowledge with the majority of who now come to this forum. If you want to learn from me, look at my work as published all over the world, look at my book project at <a href="http://www.kodachromeproject.com/">www.Kodachromeproject.com</a>, keep googling me as my work and name move up in the photo world, not down.</p> </blockquote> <p>--Lannie</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrum Kelly Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 <p>Daniel, I truly appreciate <a href="http://kodachromeproject.com/blog/"><em>your paean to Kodachrome</em> <em>and Dwayne's Photo</em></a>.</p> <p>I also am truly glad to see that Dwayne's (known to most of us as "<a href="http://www.dwaynesphoto.com/"><em>Dwayne's Photo in Parsons, Kansas</em></a>") has survived the end of Kodachrome.</p> <p>--Lannie</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrum Kelly Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 <p>In addition, here is <a href="/featured-member/2009/july/daniel-bayer-outdoor-life-photographer"><em>Photo.net's own paean to you</em></a>.</p> <p>--Lannie</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrum Kelly Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 <p>Tim, nobody kills a thread like I do, although sometimes I do it with a little help from the mods.</p> <p>--Lannie</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirk_dom1 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 <p>Hi!<br /> Art is personal. If you see something that makes your hair on your arms stand up in delight, it's art to you.<br /> For about three years now, I call myself an artist. The switch from technically competent photographer was very obvious. <br /> I started doing serious black and white landscape about two years ago and I have about five good photographs. Haven't sold anything yet because a four foot print on baryta paper costs me $750 and people think a photo costs 4 cents, because that's what they pay for a 4 by 6'' in a drugstore.<br /> It takes lots of time to do landscape and it's also very rewarding. Printing in black and white, you have to dare to go to the limit.<br> Ansel Adams was a true master printer. My goal is to approach him in printing skill, but it will take some more years. </p> <p>Bye,</p> <p>Dirk.</p> <p> </p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirk_dom1 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 <p>Making an overblown shot can also be done in black and white. Here's one I took two years ago. Love it.</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norma Desmond Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 <blockquote> <p>Art is personal.</p> </blockquote> <p>It is . . . and more. In addition to being personal, art is communal, it's very importantly <em>shared</em>. It's communicative, which requires more than just me. It's cultural. It's historical.</p> <blockquote> <p>If you see something that makes your hair on your arms stand up in delight, it's art to you.</p> </blockquote> <p>Speaking for myself, some art does make the hair on my arms stand up in delight. Some doesn't. And plenty that's not art does that. A winning home run might do it but, except in some isolated and fabulous cases, winning home runs are not usually art. A lot of art is much more subtle and simply gives me a deep kind of warmth inside, nothing as overt or energetic as the hair standing on end.<br /> <br /> For me, a landscape artist's craft (which is extremely important) would reside in his printing abilities. His actual artistry would incorporate his more creative and expressive abilities which will then use his printing skills artfully. Monet's landscapes and Van Gogh's landscapes are art not because they portray the hair-standing stunning-ness of an impressively-lit landscape, but because they show it in a unique and personal way. They give a distinctive voice to the landscape. They give me something I wouldn't have seen for myself had I been there, but sometimes now I do! Most landscape photos (even when over-dramatized or hyper-saturated) present a pale representation of what I could see if I went to that spot at the same time. Artists tend to give me something I wouldn't necessarily get on my own.<br /> <br /> _______________________________________________<br /> <br /> Landscape photography, like all genres, has its difficulties. There's waiting, there's patience, there's studying light and filters, there may be long hikes, etc. Those may all be admirable in their own rights. And, as character traits of an artist, they are interesting and important. But none of them make an artist or make the product of the difficult work art. The art is in what we see and feel, more I think than what we may know about how difficult something was to make.</p> We didn't need dialogue. We had faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_Lookingbill Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 <blockquote> <p>Tim, nobody kills a thread like I do, although sometimes I do it with a little help from the mods.<br /> --Lannie</p> </blockquote> <p>Yes, but Daniel did it with a volley of "humblebragging" that is shear artistry.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrum Kelly Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 <blockquote> <p>shear artistry</p> </blockquote> <p>Tim, I checked it out. There really is such a thing.</p> <p><a href="http://www.shearartistrysalon.com/"><strong>[link]</strong></a></p> <p>There is also<a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=shearing+lambs&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Ap_UVIXqNsTlsASqy4AY&ved=0CDQQsAQ&biw=729&bih=363"><em><strong> this.</strong></em></a><br> <br /> <br /> --Lannie<strong><br /></strong></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_Lookingbill Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 <p>That's "splitting hairs" better than a barber, Lanny. And only by being off by one letter in the word "sheer".<br> I could say (admit) that I misspelled the word or maybe I could blame it on the computer. Yeah, that's the ticket.<br> Just trying to preserve my intellectual raconteur status as a Photo.net poster. I can still sling pithy remarks with the best of them.<br> <br />For on topic sake here's what I consider a top shelf landscape photographer who doesn't crank up the drama, contrast and saturation to 11...</p> <p>http://www.pbase.com/sedonamemories/image/105594012</p> <p>From this gallery... http://www.pbase.com/sedonamemories/grand_canyon_views_from_above</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randrew1 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 <p>When you are shooting the Grand Canyon, you don't need to pump up the volume. Rochester winter days sometimes need a little help.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_Lookingbill Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 <blockquote> <p>When you are shooting the Grand Canyon, you don't need to pump up the volume.</p> </blockquote> <p>Ron, wish it were so but I've found there are far too many photographers that would disagree with you according to this simple image search... http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&tbs=rimg%3ACXMS8mf9vvXgIjjVR0IFc3FtnJJ4KDOnzJpq5kEsMQzmilVuaDalyjvo9321FOIizWUd7YbZefgIc-dngk5Vn1JcDyoSCdVHQgVzcW2cEeClSpDtezQWKhIJkngoM6fMmmoRU3lCi9ijCCgqEgnmQSwxDOaKVRHm_1CiLWy1lDSoSCW5oNqXKO-j3EXjUZtgVJm0TKhIJfbUU4iLNZR0R4VHEZ3KtGUgqEgnthtl5-Ahz5xGAMVZyucAPpioSCWeCTlWfUlwPEbfer8ARRksc&q=grand%20canyon%20landscape&ei=g4zVVLC0J9LAgwTIZg&ved=0CAkQ9C8wAA</p> <p>...GOOD LORD! those are a downright sin against nature.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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