Southern Utah and northern Arizona logistics

[eric_norbom]

<p>My brother and me are planning a two week plus photo trip to southern Utah and northern Arizona to take landscape photos in a number of national parks in late March and early April. We won't be doing the tent camping thing but are considering either a camper (with heater!) or using nearby motels and the like as a base. Our planned locations include Antelope, Coyote Buttes, Wave, White Pocket, Lace Rock, Cockscombs, Bryce Canyon, Escalante, Cathedral Valley, and Cathedral Valley. Obviously it's an ambitious and tentative agenda as this is our first trip to the area. <br>

Our questions are: Can the motel option work considering travel time to and from photo sites? Would a camper be a better way to go? Can we rent an appropriate camper locally? Is there housing available within the national parks? What towns to base ourselves in as we travel around? Camper availability?<br>

Any recommendations concerning logistics or resources will be greatly appreciated. <br>

Thank you,<br>

Eric</p>

[SCL]

<p>Eric - it sounds overly ambitious to me, having spent time at several of the locations. At that time of year you could also be seriously hampered by snowstorms, or at least snow preventing you from getting to the photographic sites on the day of your scheduled agenda. The motel option can work, but in some cases it may be quite a drive to the park of choice. Most of the parks, you can only begin to scratch the surface of photo opportunities in a two day stay, and even then it may entail some serious hiking, or at least a long duration of hiking. For instance, at Bryce, the typical canyon hike is about 4-6 hours taking the most popular trails, which will allow you to see the photo opportunities in different lighting and perspectives. I suggest you pare the list down, then go online with direct contact to the parks for information about hours of operation at that time, as well as local facilities for R&R.</p>

[david_henderson]

<p>I don't really agree with Stephen I'm afraid- though I do have some other obstacles you may not like either. That said I've been to some of the areas you propose in April and we were indeed hampered by weather which cost us time and forced some route changes. It was also kind of cold at times- for example standing at one of the platforms at Bryce we were at -9C, which is chilly to stand around in.</p>

<p>If you can get around as planned ( and only you can determine how much of a gamble you want to take on that), I think you can get around your proposed trip and photograph nicely in a couple of weeks. To pick up on the Bryce thing, virtually all the really nice photographs I've seen at Bryce are taken from the rim or very close to it. The walks vary a lot in duration and degree of hard work, but you could meaningfully go down for an hour or two and indeed if there's snow and ice around ( not a big surprise at 9 000 feet) that might well be a limiting factor. To my mind you can visit these iconic sites without tramping every path and getting every photograph they could ever yield. A couple of days at Bryce, A day at Antelope, a day in Cathedral Valley and so on would be just fine for me. Its possible to do your trip in a couple of weeks and get a lot of good photographs. The big variable is conditions and preparation</p>

<p>So here's my issues</p>

 

<ol>

<li>Have you got your passes for The Wave/Coyote Buttes (The Wave is part of the Coyote Buttes area). You know you can't just go wandering in there?</li>

<li>There are areas you propose that you will struggle to find or reach on your own and in the best of conditions would require or at least benefit from a high clearance 4WD vehicle. A regular camper van won't cut it. On top of which you are going at a time of year when snow, melting snow and spring run-off are liable to make clay roads virtually impassable and the water levels in fords ( such as the one you might want to cross to get into Cathedral Valley for instance) at their highest</li>

<li>Personally I wouldn't want to stay outdoors or in a vehicle at that time of year without absolutely the right gear - which means layers, technical clothing and so on. The best maps, the best research, the best plan B for when Plan A goes wrong. If it were me I'd be sticking to the major parks such as GC/Capitol Reef/Arches/Canyonlands/Bryce/Zion/ Monument Valley etc because there are proper roads and accommodation appropriate to the time of year. A month of so later, or in the autumn, or even with a guide with a serious vehicle for the hard bits like White Pockets, and it might be a different and easier story. </li>

<li>It is feasible to get to photographic locations from a hotel/motel base. But it almost certainly requires you to keep moving hotels because what's handy for one place will be hours from others. A few of the places you mention could be reached from Page or Kanab, but you will have to move. </li>

</ol>

<p>If you're skilled rough road drivers with the right vehicles, clothes , maps etc you might be thinking "whats this guy on about, we know all that" But there's something about your post that makes me think that this might not be the case , and that you might be horrified (or even worse, not horrified ) by the conditions you find once you get off pavement ( or even on pavement if its icy) . If its a first visit, keep it simple.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<blockquote>

<p>southern Utah and northern Arizona to take landscape photos in a number of national parks in late March and early April</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The key is late March to early April. Weather/snow is definitely a major concern, as mentioned above. Is your schedule flexible so that you can visit in, for example, May instead? One month can make a big difference.</p>

<p>If you are going to be there in early April, you also need to be flexible to adjust your trip in the last minute to local weather and road conditions at the time.</p>

[famico]

<p>Read carefully what everyone has already said, for these are real concerns for that time of year. Don't ask me how I know. ;-)</p>

[User_6502147]

<p>Camper is good when the conditions are OK (warm/er). Unless you have a self contained heater (propane, etc) you can't count on a nearby campground to be open or to provide you with elect. hook up. The larger RV places might be open, but you need to check ahead of time. Some of these places are shut down for the season. Anyway, this will force you to stay in motels. </p>

<p>Many sites near natl parks will likely be closed. For instance, the campgrounds next to Bryce are shut down and have been for months. Bryce is on a higher plateau and some of the elevations reach over 9000'. Oh, and along with those services....very often eating places are scarce as well.</p>

<p>Getting into the Wave is quite tricky and highly unpredictable. Unless you have a solid reservations long time ahead, counting on getting the permit when you get there could be v. frustrating and time consuming endevor....and there is no guarantee that you'll get in.</p>

<p>You probably could find a place that rents campers, hook it up to an outlet at nearby KOA/RV place and you're set. You can find the info on the internet (for whatever locality). That said, many of those side roads are iffy and not quite navigable for a camper - often they are prone to flooding/drainage, snow or an awful washboard.</p>

<p>Have you considered purchasing a camper and later selling it ? Camper rental will be quite expensive (I'd guess on average $200/day), but it will give you more flexibility. Arizona has several places like Yuma, where snowbirds huddle together :>) and you might want to look for a camper there.</p>

<p>Either way, such trip requires careful planning. I visited SW last Fall (70 days) and out of potential 250 destinations I only chose 31...and still kept things flexible. Good luck.</p>

<p>Les</p>

[AlanKlein]

<p>GC/Capitol Reef/Arches/Canyonlands/Bryce/Zion/ Monument Valley etc</p>

<p>When is the best time to visit these places and where to stay? My wife and I were planning a visit to enjoy the views and get photos, but reasonable pictures not as pros. Also, no camping, no RV.</p>

[kts]

<p>hi Alan, can't help you with where to stay since i'm a camper but will give you an opinion on what i consider the best times for these places as far as photograhy</p>

<p>Arches/Canyonlands.....late March/early April while there is still snow on the La Sals or in September/early October for the tail end of the monsoon season combined with fall color over in Colorado along the Million Dollar Highway</p>

<p>GC/Mon Val......late summer monsoon season for dramatic skies</p>

<p>Zion/Bryce/CR......late October/ early November for the fall color</p>

<p>also, you might want to ask this question over in the travel forum</p>

[AlanKlein]

Thanks.

[ShunCheung]

<p>Alan, I visited Zion, Bryce, and Arches in a one-week trip in May, 1999: http://www.photo.net/nature/utah.html<br>

For Zion and Bryce, we stayed in lodges inside the parks, but Ruby's Inn at the entrance of Bryce should also be convenient. Arches has no lodge inside, but the town of Moab is not far away and there are a lot of motels.</p>

[david_henderson]

<p>I can only tell you where I've stayed, and I have no doubt that were I to research a similar trip today, I'd get different answers.</p>

<p><strong>Zion.</strong> Desert Pearl Inn, Springdale ( breakfast & dinner elsewhere)</p>

<p><strong>Bryce </strong> Ruby's Inn, not far from Park Entrance</p>

<p><strong>Arches/Canyonlands </strong> Ramada, Moab. There are zillions of this class of hotel- often busier than you'd think since Moab is a major off road driving centre too. Eat in town.</p>

<p><strong>Monument Valley</strong>. Gouldings. If revisiting I'm sure I'd try for The View hotel with direct views of the Mittens</p>

<p><strong>Grand Canyon </strong>First time I stayed in one of the many motels in Tusayan. Second time in El Tovar on the rim. That gives you a better time and better pictures for more money.</p>

<p><strong>Capitol Reef.</strong> Both places I stayed have seemingly changed hands. A small group of hotels about 20 miles from the centre of the park. </p>

<p><strong>Lake Powell/Antelope Canyon/Coyote Buttes</strong> etc Probably best to stay in Page. We've used Best Westerns there.</p>

<p>I'm not going to tell you any of these places were great. I can say they were all OK, and got me as close as I could get in a hotel to good early and late photography. </p>

<p>If I were doing this now I'd choose maybe mid Sept-mid October, or late April. You'd quite possibly get better photographs if you took some risks with weather. On the other hand you might not be able to get around as you'd like and have to change plans. </p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>BTW, what is the rule for Zion now? Obviously my info from 16 years ago is out of date. Back then, they started requiring people to take the shuttle buses in the busy months. Back in 1999, one advantage for staying at the lodge inside Zion was that we could drive our own car inside, giving us a lot more flexibility.</p>

[john_thurston5]

<p>You may have heard this from previous posters:<br />That's an awfully ambitious agenda.<br />Stick to fewer locations and cover them well, rather than a chaotic chasing after many opportunities and ending up with lots of less than optimal results.<br /><br />Take into consideration you will need to scout locations on a first day to see where to be, wait there to see what the light at the right time might afford you, return to your base camp, and return the next day to actually do the shoot.<br />Depending on how far away you establish a Base Camp, that could be a lot of trudging back and forth and perhaps quite a distance.<br /><br />We have a desire to arrive at a scenic, and perhaps overly photographed spot, see the moment, shoot, and move on, but I and others have found that you actually miss the non-cliched shot by not doing due diligence and scouting out first for that unique vantage point, knowing when to be there for optimal light, returning and "laying in wait" for the perfect shot.<br /><br />The region affords many stunning vistas and in some ways a preliminary survey of the entire region might do you well, learn where what you want is, how to get there and prepare for shoots there, then return to just the choice spots.<br /><br />My 2 cents worth after chasing many places my self and always being there at the wrong time of day.<br /><br />Good Luck.</p>

[bob_flood1]

<p>Shun, you are right about Zion. Because parking in the canyon is so limited and the park so popular, they operate a shuttle bus system from mid-March through the beginning of November. The only exceptions allowed are for the wheelchair-bound disabled. (Us lesser disabled have to use the shuttles - the only difficulty there is the first step up to enter the shuttle is a little high, but tolerable.) It is a very good shuttle system - there's a good assortment of stops along the canyon road, and shuttles come by every few minutes.</p>

<p>The shuttle only runs in the canyon, so if you want to go up through the tunnel and see the high country (e.g. Checkerboard Mesa), you'll have to drive. Likewise for the Kolob Canyon part of the park.</p>

[rconey]

<p>We spent a week at Arches/Moab after Christmas this year and a week at Zion same time last year. It is cold, say 9 degrees to 15 degrees in the morning, but there are no crowds. snow on the red rock is great on a blue sky day. The snowstorms themselves blowing through make for difficult photography. We have been to Zion several times the first week in April and really like it then. We camped in the back country with our young kids. Never had a blizzard hit, and it would be in the 50s during the day, cold at night. Frequently there was snow on the ground above 6,000 ft elevation but not always. Again, fewer people. It sounds like you have a scouting trip planned- hopefully you will be able to go back to areas you like best for more in-depth work. Moab is very close to Arches/Canyonlands. Springdale is a great town by Zion. I haven't been to Escalante in years, but there is not much there town-wise. We camped on McGath Point for a few nights- great views. Sounds like a fun trip.</p>

[greg_campbell1]

Eric, are you still here?

<br><br>

Doable? Sure. None of your destinations are more than an hour or so from a lodge or motel.

As suggested, elevation and weather may play a very important role in your trip. If you stay flexible, you can visit lower destinations during stormy weather, avoiding the worst conditions.

<br><br>

Road conditions will be a real concern. Most / all of the unpaved roads in the area turn to owl poo when mixed with significant rain. Hole-in-the-Rock, House Rock, Shutumpah, Cathedral Rd, etc. are all reasonably likely (IMO, 50%-50% or so) to be completely impassable. Do you have a back-up destination list?

[eric_norbom]

<p>Thanks Greg and all that have responded. We've read the excellent books by Laurent Martres (Photographing the Southwest, Vol. 1-3), purchased Nat. Geo. maps of the national parks, and cross referenced all with Utah and Arizona Road Atlases. Road conditions (variable!), trails, and most of all, best time of day for photos have been noted. We will also use GPS or whole wheat bread crumbs to track our moves.<br>

Our agenda lists more locations then we can possibly cover to account for weather and road condition variables. We anticipate more useful info when we check with the local visitor centers. Scheduling our trip for late March and early April was made with a preference for unpredictable weather over larger crowds.<br>

Again, thanks to all for providing helpful information. </p>

 

[ShunCheung]

<p>I didn't see large crowds when I visited in May, but that was many years ago in 1999. I would imagine that you'll see large crowds in July, August. But still, perhaps Zion and Bryce are more popular since they are not that far or Las Vegas. These national parks are not like Yellowstone, Yosemite or the Everglades.</p>

[greg_campbell1]

As if you don't have enough on your plats, this ought to give you some ideas... ;)

<br>

http://www.americansouthwest.net/slot_canyons/map.html<br>

While some are purely technical, many of these slots have reasonably long, scenic stretches that can be reached by simply hiking upstream into the canyon. A fair number of this subgroup are accessible via a short hike from paved roads.

<br>Several of the N. Lake Powell > North Wash group are quite scenic, generally dry, and less than a mile from Hwy 95. If you watched 127 hours, you'll recognize the superb Leprechaun (Canyon 3).

[craig_gillette]

<p>I can suggest checking with the lodging in the area of the various locations/parks. A few thoughts, Easter is April 5th this year so that adds at least some added potential that the most popular and/or most easily reached destination areas will possibly have more school vacation/Spring Break travel impact although more school systems are basing Spring Breaks on fixed calendar dates.</p>

<p>And I can second the warnings on weather being a possible problem. We traveled to Williams and Flagstaff one year the first week of April in order to see the Grand Canyon, Oak Creek Canyon, etc, and a snowstorm moved in over night and for 4 days dumped anywhere from one to two feet of snow over night each night. That pretty well shut down the interstates let alone the other highways in the highest country. They got them open again late in the day each day but for the most part, I-40 and I-17 were closed most of that time and the highways north to the rim and north from Flagstaff to Page, etc., were closed even longer. That was an unusually severe and slow moving storm but flexibility in planning is a good idea.</p>