Ferrania kickstarter

[cbender]

<p><a href="https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/filmferrania/100-more-years-of-analog-film">Film Ferrania's</a> kickstarter opened yesterday, and seems to be taking off pretty well (~$100k in less than 24 hours). They're raising funds to acquire large components of the old Ferrania production factory (part of the big coater, the chemical lab, and the acetate base production machine). Apparently the production capabilities of the research facility they already have are too small to make film in any economically viable quantities.</p>

<p>They are using the kickstarter as the avenue for selling the first small run of E6 film produced in the research facility (35mm, 120, Super8, 16mm). Prices per roll are higher than what you'd pay B&H for Fujifilm right now, but not ridiculously so: the 4 roll buy in level ends up being $17.50/roll. If their claim that 75% is going to the machines, and 25% to the production cost of the film run, then they apparently can make film for <$4.50/roll.</p>

<p>I haven't seen another thread about the kickstarter on photo.net yet, but if I missed it the moderators should feel free to close this. It occurred to me that there might just not be too many film shooters left over here, but that's too sad to contemplate and so I decided everyone must have been out yesterday using their cameras and had no time for internet browsing...</p>

[wogears]

<p>I gave--they're supposedly up to $100,000.</p>

[diegobuono]

Done!

[vrankin]

<p>How will a restart ever sustain profitability? Most of the world has gone digital without a look back.</p>

[diegobuono]

Exactly... most, not all!

:-)

[cbender]

<p>Howard - I've seen many claims that the lack of profitability for Kodak was related to the size of their production facility. They were unable to reduce the capacity as the market reduced demand, and so were left with a hulk of a factory with fixed costs that were too high to support. Ferrania has made a lot of noise about building a production line that is sized properly to the current market. Ilford has done this, so it's not a ridiculous proposal. </p>

<p>Ferrania started out with the small "research lab" sized facility, with the test coater and support machines. I think I read somewhere that this machine can coat ~500K 35mm rolls / year, at a fairly high cost / roll. This is the machinery they are using for the first production run that will be distributed to the kickstarter supporters.</p>

<p>Now they want to salvage portions of the full production factory from the old Ferrania plant (which had a capacity of ~40 million rolls), and use them to construct a new production line that is sized between that of the research lab and the full factory.</p>

[c_watson1]

<p>The Ferrania Kickstarter beg-a-thon has been covered widely among film-shooting communities. They've been trying to fly this since last summer with mostly blue sky and sympathy from film fanatics who have yet to see any product. I'm not taking much comfort from this Kickstarter effort, either. Not sure how firm a grasp Ferrania has of demand for film in late 2014, especially for E-6 materials. The talk of spooling for orphan formats(e.g., 110, 126,127) was a bit troubling. By the time Fujifilm axes their E-6 films, one wonders whether the surviving residual market will be too small even for Ferrania.They may resort to the production/sales scheme Harman uses for their annual Ilford ULF orders. I'm a film shooter but also a realist concerning what appears to be a critically undercapitalized venture.</p>

<p>BTW, anyone curious about how a Kickstarter campaign works(and how Jeff Bezos runs almost everything)should have a look here:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.pbs.org/idealab/2010/11/the-pros-and-cons-of-using-kickstarter-to-fundraise316/">http://www.pbs.org/idealab/2010/11/the-pros-and-cons-of-using-kickstarter-to-fundraise316/</a></p>

[cbender]

<p>C. W. - I agree that the orphan formats seem like a far off (pipe??) dream. Since I'm only a 35mm & 120 shooter, that's irrelevant to me. And if this topic (the kickstarter, not Ferrania in general) was already being covered on photo.net, then this thread should be merged there. A day after the drive started, I still hadn't seen any mention of it on what I consider the most prominent photography forum site on the internet, so thought I'd fill in the gap.</p>

<p>All of the E6 films that I've loved have been killed off (e.g. Ektachrome, Elite Chrome, Astia, 400X). We're down to two emulsions, neither of which I was ever very fond of. My freezer is stocked with now unavailable things that I picked up for $5/roll, but those days are gone. And I'm tired of taking risks on outdated film with unknown storage that goes for crazy prices on auction sites.</p>

<p>I'm in with Ferrania for 4 rolls @ $17/roll (about the same price 400X was going for at the time it was discontinued), and I'll be shooting those rolls when they arrives, not hoarding them as some collectors item. At least I know the film will be fresh. If we (the photo community who still regularly or occasionally uses film) stops buying fresh film, then the market surely will die.</p>

<p>If Ferrania is able to continue production, I'll likely buy a couple of bricks of 35mm and a pro pack or two of 120 in the first year. If they go under then I'll have purchased 4 rolls of film at prices that aren't any worse that I'm seeing on ebay for film with questionable provenance.</p>

[c_watson1]

<p>Hoping the campaign doesn't stall after the keeners buy in. It's still looking like seven months before anyone sees any film, barring mechanical or any other sort of mishaps. Wonder how they'll be able to make enough product to get it into retail channels in N. America. Can't pass the hat every time just to fire up the line.</p>

[glen_h]

<p>I was just wondering, once you have film production running, how hard is it to produce a different format?<br>

Kodak kept production for sizes like 116 for many years, when demand must have been pretty low. <br>

Are the machines Kodak uses to make 116 spools and 126 cartridges still around? Or the ones that others used to make them?</p>

[c_watson1]

<p>Talk of reviving orphan formats is like catnip to some film shooters. Suspect that's why Dave Bias includes it in his recent Ferrania pitch interviews. People hear what they want to hear and tend to ignore the lack of any real commitment. Still hoping Ferrania can actually deliver <em>something</em> by next spring.</p>

[glen_h]

<p>Which processing labs are doing Super-8 E6?<br>

Is anyone else making any? </p>

[eddy_d]

<p>http://shop.holgadirect.com/collections/all-film/products/ferrania-solaris-100-35mm-film</p>

<p>https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film</p>

[arthur_smith1]

<p>I tend to suffer from Kickstarter fatigue. I have heard several interviews with Dave, and while I commend the effort and commitment, Ferrania hardly instills that warm/fuzzy feeling as a legendary brand. Getting the machines back up and running is one thing, getting the chemistry and film quality right is totally another issue. Impossible has proven this, and if they do not improve their materials soon, are likely to go under. Marketing only goes so far. </p>