douglasely Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 <p>I recently took outdoor product pictures for a manufacturing company that got the attention of the police. In anticipation of this possibility, had a letter from the company explaining that I was shooting on behalf of them. The officer was doing his job, was polite and our conversation was enjoyable. I now have to repeat this task in six more municipalities. </p> <p>Other than wearing a photographers vest nothing about my appearance indicates that I am a photographer. Do you have any ideas regarding how I can better appear to be a photographer, or have ID made stating that I am a photographer? Or, any other thoughts about how best to handle this the next time. My only thought is to put a badge or something similar on my clothing. I also have a sign on my car's dash saying "photographer." All thoughts are appreciated. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS1664879711 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 What is it about your photography that attracts police in the first place? ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBen Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 <p>Anyone who takes pictures is a photographer is the broad sense of the term. Police and security guards are not primarily interested in who is taking pictures but why. There is no magic or voodoo in the word photographer or a press card or any other amulet or charm that will confer on you an invisible shield of protection and ward off the police. By the way, it is unlikely that a card on the dash that says "photographer" will prevent you from being ticketed if parked illegally. However, it might attract the attention of a thief who will break into your trunk looking of expensive gear.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drjoder Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 <p>Are you in the U.S.? I don't know if this applied to your situation , but there are some public properties that require permits for commercial photography. Here in Boulder, Colorado, the City Open Space comes to mind in that regard--potentially very scenic places for shooting outdoor products! If you are using models, sets or props, you might need a permit if on Park Service, Forest Service, or BLM lands. This website talks about the permit issue a bit: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/photo-permits/</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lornesunley Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 <p>You could always become more politically active in defending the Rights and Freedoms of citizens in your country</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 <p>A local photographer who documents the downtown Fort Worth lifestyle said he occasionally wears a vest marked photographer. But as he's gained confidence in taking candid unposed snaps and posed photos of people he doesn't wear it often now. He's gained enough local stature that folks recognize him.</p> <p>A vest is mainly symbolic but can help ease the way if you're working in unfamiliar turf. Anyone who looks can see you're taking photos, but a marked vest would indicate you're not trying to hide anything.</p> <p>I wouldn't put any markers on a vehicle. A sign reading "Photographer" on an unoccupied vehicle probably reads "Steal me" to thieves.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 <blockquote> <p>outdoor product pictures . . .</p> </blockquote> <p>In mostly all similar situations the legislation where I work requires me to wear an “Hi Vis Safety Vest”. I have not had the word “Photographer” printed on mine, because working with a camera or two in hand it is obvious that I am a Photographer. I have a couple with “MEDIA” printed across the back, which were supplied to me by the agent which employed me, in those cases to cover "Events".</p> <p>My point being that where I live, wearing the Hi Vis Safety Vest, indicates that the wearer is “at work” in a public location. Your laws may differ, but anyway, I think it is an inexpensive easy and worthwhile consideration for you.</p> <p>I only ever make visible any applicable Location Parking Permits or Official Authority Permits (for example “Contractor for University of ...) inside my car, I don’t label anything “Photographer”.</p> <p>WW</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasely Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 <p>"A vest is mainly symbolic but can help ease the way if you're working in unfamiliar turf. Anyone who looks can see you're taking photos, but a marked vest would indicate you're not trying to hide anything." thanks Lex<br> <br> "My point being that where I live, wearing the Hi Vis Safety Vest, indicates that the wearer is “at work” in a public location." thanks William (I would have never thought of this)<br> <br> Thank you for the helpful responses responses, D </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasely Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 <p>Brian, I'm shooting components involved in transportation. <br> Post 9 / 11 I appreciate that the police are stopping giving the subject matter. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS1664879711 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 The letter from the client may be the best you can do other than teaming with client to precoordinate with the local police ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lornesunley Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 <p>I am very surprised at how quickly the USA has gone from "the land of the free" to "the land of Papers Please" without many people seeming to object.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron_mccormick Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 <p>good question.</p> <p>I often shoot in areas that may draw unwanted attention from authorities (abandoned buildings), so I have to think about this all the time. 99 percent of the time, if people stop you, they will let you go if it is obvious you are not doing bad shit. But then there is always the bad security guard who calls the cops on you after a reasonable conversation, just because it makes him a feel like a better security guard.<br> If active security is present, I will ask if I can shoot, so that I can be at ease not trespassing.<br> Sadly, in other situations, a load of professional gear strapped on you, and being seen engaged in photography isn't always enough to get you off the hook. With all that photo gear, do people really assume you are there to spray paint, steal, or vandalize? It doesn't matter, because that is not their concern. They just want to know why the hell you are there.<br /><br />About three weeks ago, I was touring NYC, with Ellis Island as the highlight. When I was done, I figured I would drive around Brooklyn and points south (Breezy Point) in order to capture old buildings like the Redhook grain terminal and any possible wreckage left over from Hurricane Sandy. <br> Never even left my car that much, but while I came to rest one time parked and trying to stay warm and eating a DELICIOUS reuben sandwich, this dumpy looking guy from a beat up van walks up to my window and starts asking questions. It was two guys, sitting there on the opposite side of the street watching me for 15 minutes. They were monitoring what I was doing because there was a report of "a suspicious person in the area". OK, probably me. lol.<br /><br /> Long story short, it was the Spanish Inquisition in 5 minutes. My camera gear was a worthy credibility prop, so it was obvious that I was not the "suspicious person" they were looking for. Every question they asked me, I simply routed them back to my hobby or the fact that I was from out of town on a short vacation, driving randomly from one place to the other, not really familiar with the area. (all true) <br /><br /> They searched my car, but found nothing.. patted me down. The guy looking in my car found a corked wine bottle from the previous night's celebration, but was more like: "Ooh, he's got the <em>good</em> stuff!" and they gave me a slap on the wrist. LOL<br> Anyway, all this has got me thinking (again) about credibility props one should have on their person in case they are deemed a suspicious photographer. It's all about credibility, whether on the scene shooting or on the perimeter and you are just leaving and some dude decides to stop you.<br /><br />Why not have a photographer's artist statement on you, about why you shoot the buildings you do, and why architectural history is important to you? Why not use one of several you wrote in graduate school, right?<br /><br />Why not have a 50 or a hundred spot on you, or just a pack of smokes? Just in case someone feels like being a complete jerk? Offer them a gift and they might let you off the hook.<br> Why not have a hard hat and clipboard on you? NOBODY wants to talk to the guy with the clipboard! Possibilities are endless. Most of the time though, just be honest.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenahale Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 <p>Or you could look upon this as opportunities to meet interesting people and perhaps use them in your photography. Unfortunately it is the reality of life in many countries today including those that consider themselves "land of the free"</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS1664879711 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 The interaction with the police was nonconfontational. We're still free folks. Nobody tread on the OPs right to photograph. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 <p>As a general comment.</p> <p>In the mid seventies, I was in Hawaii. I was making night-scape a picture, of (what was then) an unusual hotel with an outside glass/steel elevator. I needed to brace the camera, I used a fire hydrant and was kneeling on the pavement. I also needed to wait for a break in the traffic as I was shooting from across the other side of the roadway. About five minutes in I still had only made one shot, but I was not satisfied that I had held the camera stable enough. Then the viewfinder went black, because a Police Patrol Car parked in front of me and two fellows got out - I was firstly a bit shocked - but, they simply but firmly asked asked what I was doing. I just told them - explaining that the outdoor 'lift' (elevator) was a special curiosity and a night shot would make a special addition to my collection of Photos of Hawaii. It would have been reasonably obvious that I was a visitor as soon as I spoke. They asked me a few more questions one sticks in my memory to this day - what hotel I was staying at - seemed to me at the time possibly several of the questions they asked were not a related nor questions that I <em>needed</em> to answer.</p> <p>But I think that "escalation" can happen because of <strong><em>either side</em></strong> of the interaction making unnecessary choices based upon ego or other silly elements. They seemed happy with my responses and also that fact that I pointed to general direction as to where my Hotel was located.</p> <p>My points being - I was a visitor on their turf and all I wanted was to get my photos. The Coppers were civil and seemed just curious. Maybe about my actions endangering someone else. Maybe about whether I was a danger to myself. Maybe just curious because, I think that <em>Coppers are paid to be curious.</em> Sometimes Coppers, School Teachers and the General Public just being curious, does stop bad things from happening. Perhaps I didn't need to answer all their questions, but it really wasn't such a big deal to supply the answers to the questions that they asked. That was well before the horrible events of "9/11" and I very well understand if I were to be asked questions now.<br> <br> WW</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS1664879711 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 We haven't used that expression, coppers, since the 1940's. How quaint. � ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 <p>... pretty common here, well, at least amongst <em>Blokes</em> my age.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen_S Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 <p>I woulddn't go for highly visible "photographer / press / media" badges as long as I am far form (almost) combat zones. <br> For credibility props: there can be none. If it was known that something makes you look far from suspicious, the villains would use exactly that for cover. <br> If the police make it a habit to check you during your outdoor shootings ask them where to leave a notice when you plan to look suspicious the next time. But I wouldn't expect these to get through.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasely Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 <p>"I am very surprised at how quickly the USA has gone from "the land of the free" to "the land of Papers Please" without many people seeming to object."<br> <br> Lorne, the police officer never asked to see my papers, nor has any other in times past. He was polite, encouraging, and signed off saying, "looks like what you are doing is fun. Enjoy your day." He was simple doing his job. The U. S. continues to be "the land of the free" in this photographer's eyes. Today, more than ever, I want the police to do their job effectively. My question is based on, what additional acts can I do to help a policeman and a photographer best interact. Especially today, when we are each faced with new, ugly crimes that are happening in common places. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 <blockquote> <p>"In anticipation of this possibility, had a letter from the company explaining that I was shooting on behalf of them."<br /><br /></p> </blockquote> <p>Why?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasely Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 <p>"In anticipation of this possibility, had a letter from the company explaining that I was shooting on behalf of them.<br> Why?"<br> <br> John, I do not understand your question. Please elaborate. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Laur Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 <blockquote> <p>John, I do not understand your question. Please elaborate.</p> </blockquote> <p>It seems a reasonable question from John. How would a letter from a company change the legality of what you're doing in a public space? It doesn't sound as if you were on that company's private property, or climbing around on their privately owned transportation equipment. So a letter from them seems irrelevant, as it relates to whether or not a police officer would perceive you as breaking some law. If you're not peeking in windows, doing something dangerous with a tripod on a public sidewalk, not stepping out into traffic for a better angle, etc., then there's really nothing for anyone to care about one way or the other.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS1664879711 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 <p>It has nothing to do with establishing "legality", but it is documentation that the activity is sponsored and legitimate. If nobody is concerned to know that fact it is useless. But if someone is interested for whatever reason, it makes the conversation a whole lot easier. If nothing else, there is no harm in having such documentation when photographing for a job outside of a studio or corporate property.</p> ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasely Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 <p>Matt, to answer John's question I need his frame of reference. It is most likely a reasonable question but I was not sure how to answer it. </p> <p>In response to Matt, the letter explains that I have been retained for hire. It puts me in a professional position, not a lay person. Police and security are put at ease by such a letter. They work. <br> </p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasely Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 <p>Brian, your statement, "but it is documentation that the activity is sponsored and legitimate." Well put, thank you, D<br> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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