Strange complaint?

[bash_pix]

<p>Hi, <br>

So not sure is this the right place to post this but i need some advice... I received my first complaint the other day and it truly baffled me... <br>

So the couple was lovely and we had a great day and i loved shooting their wedding. I dropped off their photos having editing more then agreed. <br>

I was then TXT messaged saying that " WE LOVE OUR IMAGES but bride is uncomfortable with some images....We can sort it out in the new year" <br>

Now I did not want to leave this and being the person I am i phoned to resolve and find out what the issues where... Want to except criticism and all and resolve the situation. No pick up but i messaged them back and i received another message saying " we really want to let you know we love them and e want to stay friends and we don't want to sound like problem bride and groom. We can sort it out in the new year" </p>

<p>So i responded with a plee saying if its ok can we resolve this now as i will worry over it over the christmas holidays and as your photographer it is my duty to fix the baldly photographer or edited images you don't like" <br>

I was them messaged back by the bride messaged back and told me that "she loves the images their perfectly photographed and edited but their are 15-17 images which she doesn't like because she feels she looks fat lol...and her double chin is upsetting her and that she has always had these issues of a short neck lol "<br>

NOW i dont really know how to respond to this.... AS i feel technique i have done the job i was paid to do (which it was a deal) i went out of my way on the day to do as much as i could, i produced some wonderful images and more then i needed too. This is her body issues and i cant fix a issue she has had for years. I am not her friend i am not her therpist i am her photographer who has done her duty. I feel that if i now edit 15-17 images again for her she will sill dislike them as she is unhappy with her self.. <br>

it would be great to hear some advice in how i should respond in a way that is not to harsh but trying to say this is not an issue i can resolve... </p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>You might scout around and find a Photoshop wizard who is skilled in retouching body shapes and proportions and is sympathetic toward clients with body image issues. There are many retouchers offering this service but not many doing it really well, so a good job will probably cost extra. Perhaps you can arrange a professional referral relationship with a skilled retoucher. Let the client decide. It can be resolved, if the client is willing to pay for the service.</p>

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p>"as your photographer it is my duty to fix the baldly photographer or edited images you don't like"</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I have no idea what you mean by "baldly photographer" but, speaking 'baldly', telling the client that it is your duty to fix images they "don't like" creates expectations contradicting the claim, here, that you 'have done the job you were paid to do'. The latter being accurate, the former, now entrenched in the mind of the client. I suggest, in the future, to avoid making universal commitments to please clients when you have no idea what whimsical requirements may be needed to satisfy them.<br /><br />In the meantime, consider brushing up on your liquify skills (pun not originally intended) for the limited amount of images or prepare to offer the solution proposed by Lex with an explanation ready to give that your assurances were premised on issues for which you were at fault. Be prepared to be told that alternative choices of how to shoot the image could have made to her appear more flattering. Be prepared for that to be an accurate claim. Making it potentially an accurate issue of your fault to some degree.</p>

[paul_wheatland]

<p>My son and I as amateurs shot a wedding because the chosen photographer backed out two weeks before the event. The reason was never given, but we surmised it was because both bride and groom were very obese. They and the wedding party and reception was a fantastic success. My son and I had a wonderful experience photographing the nicest young couple!</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Also, the usual caution: If you're posting here with your real name, remember that this thread is only one simple Google search from being seen by the client in question, and future customers. Mentioning things like not being her therapist can come across as something other people will take into account when deciding to hire (or subsequently recommend) you. Tread carefully when talking about your customers on public forums. <br /><br />And: based on what you've related, I see no reason to think the B&G weren't talking about buying MORE services from you after getting back together with you. They probably wanted to put off that conversation because they very reasonably knew they'd be getting into fresh contracting with you on what is essentially a new piece of related business. You don't have a problem, you have an opportunity - to either sell more of your services (in advanced retouching), or re-selling, with a reasonable margin to cover your costs and logistics and taxes, someone else's services. The only way this will be a problem for you is if, out of some tone-deafness on the diplomacy front, you cause it to be one. You can preserve the existing good will <em>and</em> make some more money <em>and</em> make them happy if you keep your communication with them sounding less defensive, and you sounding less panicked about how quickly they make these extra arrangements. </p>

[etphoto]

<p>Lol, sounds like a common, and not unusual, complaint to me. What is that cliché? Oh yeah, the camera doesn't lie. Of course, there are ways to photograph to lessen the double chin effect but in the heat of the moment I can see 15-17 images slipping through the culling. I wouldn't sweat it if I were you. although, I am curious what they wish to talk about after the holidays.</p>

[wade_thompson1]

<p>The bride, groom, wedding party and family are each going to like and dislike photos of themselves at certain angles... this is normal.. no one loves all images of themselves.. it's the rare find to find one you really like.</p>

<p>That is what you deliver lots and lots of images. Just my 2 cents worth.</p>

[savagesax]

It would help greatly to see an example.

 

There's a lot of tricks you can do with overweight people when shooting the actual weddings. This bride isn't

overweight, but by turning her in an angle, maybe 45 degrees and you move the flowers in front of her waist

you can take off a lot of weight naturally. You are showing off the flowers taking the eyes off the waist area.

 

As said above you can also use the liquify filter as well.

 

This photo is far from perfect. I shot this wedding last August with just having elbow surgery. I used a pod for

most of the shots and although tripods and monopods are lifesavers they can greatly slow you up. Well the

photo still works and she she looks thinner than in real life. Practicing assorted angles of people along with the

use of creative lighting you really shouldn't ever get very any complaints. This also includes, works with

pregnant brides that don't really want to be shown.

 

Hope this helps.<div></div>

[savagesax]

The girl above has a double chin and I had her put her weight on her back leg. If she was leaning over on her

front leg the chin would show up a lot. You can tell that she is leaning on her left leg because her shoulders are

higher in front and lower in the back.

 

By the way with the lower neck issue you can ask her to point her face forward. You can shoot from a step

stool so you are higher up. If you are a smaller photographer a step stool is kind of a must, because this

accents the chin and nose areas.

 

Unless you are over about 6 feet tall or so you should have a step stool with you just in case someone, the groom included is like 6'5" or something. This too helps a lot if you are in a chuch and the Altar has steps. You want to be at least around the same height as the groom.

 

Try not to ever pose a lady or a man with even weight on their feet and even shoulders. Read up on masculine

and feminine posing. Your wedding photo's will look fantastic just by knowing these few simple rules of

photography.

 

Hope this helps.

[Marcus Ian]

<p>Wow, you sound really harsh. Frankly, I think you should have followed their lead, and resolved it in the new year. Sounds like your neediness, and insecurity about your work has made them even more uncomfortable which has only made things worse. Maybe that's not a correct interpretation, but it sounds like you are being overly sensitive about the problem. And demanding an immediate response has probably soured them - especially given the sensitive nature of your error.</p>

<p>Just to make it clear, you shouldn't have forwarded images which you felt weren't flattering - And as her photographer, "doing your duty", you should have been <em>looking</em> for<em> exactly</em> those flaws (<em>especially</em> ones the client is sensitive about) and working to avoid those. </p>

<p> A double chin is<em> often</em> a key point of sensitivity (<em>no</em> woman feels they look good with a double chin!) - and a broad smile can often make it much much worse. No therapist is required to figure that one out. ...and, photographed incorrectly, the chin will make even the skinniest girls look overweight in the face. Bob gave some excellent advice about posing to reduce the apparent weight of a client, but you'll need some PS work to fix the images you've already provided. Using light and shadow can dramatically reduce the appearance of a double chin, but it is a bit tricky to balance it naturally. It may be much easier to play with the liquify tool. Aside from that general advice, we'll be hard pressed to help you more without an example to see.</p>

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p>"Just to make it clear, you shouldn't have forwarded images which you felt weren't flattering"</p>

</blockquote>

<p>How would you know if that happened or even if the images were objectively unflattering? Wouldn't you want, at least, to see the images in question before making such assumptions?</p>

[katrin_d.]

<p>Your duty is what's stipulated in your contract. So unless it states that you'll do more than "basic editing" (color correction etc.) and venture into beauty editing (I think I read liquify here already), then you're covered legally.<br>

<br />However, wedding vendor/client relationships are about more than legal aspects as most of us actually care about clients loving their photos. Simply give it a rest until after the holidays and stop texting with the couple. Send them an email, wish them an incredible holiday season and offer a meeting in the new year so they can let you know which images the bride isn't happy with. You can then enter into a new contract under which you'll fix whatever the issue is - i.e. edit out a third chin or that additional role of back fat because of this wretched strapless trend. <br>

<br />Personally, I pose folks in a flattering way but absolutely, positively do not edit out excess fat. If you have a year planning your wedding, you have a year of hitting the gym and shouldn't expect the photographer to edit out a couple of hundred pounds in post production. Assuming you have done your duty and didn't bungle the posing. </p>

[Marcus Ian]

<blockquote>

<p>How would you know if that happened or even if the images were objectively unflattering? Wouldn't you want, at least, to see the images in question before making such assumptions?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It was my assumption that the OP<em> looked</em> at the images she provided to her client before she actually sent them to her client. Some things are blatantly obvious to the casual observer - such as a flattened double chin. The OP certainly could choose to post an image that was edited to make the client unidentifiable yet still show the 'issue' area (take about 15sec in Paint). Without that though, we cannot be certain how poorly the photog executed her 'duties' (if poorly at all).</p>

<p>So, while it is remotely possible that the client is simply over sensitive, since they liked all the rest of the images, one can only assume that they are not <em>that</em> sensitive (else <em>every</em> image would have the bride in tears) - in fact, since they liked the rest of the images sooooo much - the only conclusion I can arrive at is that this (15-17 pictures) group of images is most likely an extremely bad posing or angle or both. Hence my conclusion. While I would prefer to see the images, without that, I can only look to logic (unfortunately people are not always logical ;) ). </p>

<p>There is the matter of the tone of the OP as well. She specifically states that her client did not want to discuss it at present, yet she continued to doggedly pursue the issue (<em>her</em> 'knowing' was more important than the client's objections, feelings, or opinions) - and, it appears, alienated her client in the process. I understand that some people's personalities lend themselves to this behavior, however most wedding photogs try to respect their clients, and their client's wishes. This behaviors speaks of the opposite - which further implies that this attitude may have worked it's way into her shooting... ie. the <em>OP's</em> desires and opinions overwhelmed those of her client... a worrying prospect. </p>

 

[davidfong]

<p>Hi Ashley,<br>

I had a similar complaint just recently so I know what you are feeling. So this is how I handled it. As we all know as photographers, there will come a time where someone will complain about something. You did correctly by getting a hold of the Bride (or attempted to via phone) to try and offer a solution to the problem. Since they did not want to really bring up the problem till the New Year, if in fact that it was a really bad problem, then you should have not pursued it further. This being said, we have to learn that not all the photos will be loved or liked by the customer. We all seem to believe that we have to please everyone 100% and unless you had something in writing warranting that concept then you should not feel obligated to do anything. Being that sometimes we fall in love with our own work (and we are human), we do make mistakes from time to time. A bad position, angle or pose. During your culminating, if you found it to be a problem, I am sure you would have removed the photo or deleted it. However in this case some photos which you felt were good ended up in her collection. I did the same so when I was messaged about the problem I did what you did. Contacted the bride. The solution, apologize, offer a instant fix if warranted and then move on. If you can fix the photo you can offer as a solution to do so but if it can't be fixed, you can't go back. Don't try to do something that you cannot control. For now, if they have already given you the problem photos, be honest and apologize if you cannot fix them. You can offer a retake but at a cost that will not hinder your schedule or your income. If they say its ok, then at least you cared enough to put out the offer. The hardest part of this is the apology and the having to listen to the complaint without giving an excuse. After that, its all good. A hard lesson but with experience it gets better. I hope this message helps.</p>

[midgley]

<p>It is nice that you worry about things.<br>

Somewhere between saying hide the ones she doesn't like (and wondering whether you would have done as well to leave them in reserve yourself) and making a new version of the ones that she and you think will be best once edited is probably the right answer.<br>

But also, if you have advance notice that something needs to be discussed, you need to put it aside, and allocate time to deal with it, early next year, not now.</p>