Looking for a point and shoot 35mm with flash . Am i Crazy?

[think_that]

<p>So I'm a novice photographer, although i have a dlsr which i shoot in mostly auto. I've decided Im done with clicking away mindlessly and now I want to move back to film. <br>

My new obsession started a few fews back when i bought a kodak disposable cam that came with a flash. I got the photos back and was in love.<br>

So I began looking for a non-disposable camera that was similar. <br>

What im looking for :<br>

-light weight, can be in my bag with me everyday<br>

-has built in flash preferably <br>

do you guys have any suggestions?</p>

<p>I've meanwhile gotten myself a holga, and before you squirm, it was because it was a real bargain and i just wanted something i could mess around with. <br>

Im planning to get an olympus trip 35 for proper photography.<br>

and also what do you guys think of the vivitar ultra wide and slim. been thinking of getting one for super cheap.</p>

 

[john_shriver]

<p>The Olympus Stylus 35 with the 35mm f/2.8 lens is highly regarded, and meets your requirements. Sold as the mju-II in some countries.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>I've decided Im done with clicking away mindlessly and now I want to move back to film.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>What exactly is it that precludes you from using your mind and do proper photography when shooting with a DSLR? Proper photography isn't a matter of the camera being used but the person using the camera.<br>

There must be a truckload of P&S film cameras with built-in flash out there - why are you interested in two that don't have it?</p>

[think_that]

<blockquote>

<p>What exactly is it that precludes you from using your mind and do proper photography when shooting with a DSLR? </p>

</blockquote>

<p>well to answer that, i think it offers me too many options. i dont even have a proper grasp of aperture and all and it has too many choices. I rather start with something basic like the olympus trip with not too many variables. <br>

2ndly its bulky ,i tend to not bring it out , because of size and weight. <br>

I've gotten a cheap flash for my holga now. </p>

[Jochen_S]

<p>As long as you desire something cheap you might appear saner than the other guy sesiring something way more expensive to do the same purpose.<br>

I like the 20 to 22mm view. I am not sure about the Vivtar. IMHO any dirtcheap film SLR with an also neither too expensive nor boringly perfect Soligor 20mm f2.8 should give more framing convenience and versatility. <- I am not praising the Soligor lens, I just happen to own one for 25 years now. there are surely other less expensive 20mms on the market too.<br>

Issues I see with a dedicated super wise angle camera when shooting film: Turn around time of the WA roll sucks I guess I might do less than 10% at that focal length in total (usually) - That means I finish 9 general range rolls until I get pictures of the WA camera.<br>

Why limit yourself to a fixed everything camera only usable in broad daylight?<br /> - to me a lot of 20 - 22 mm Indoor shots seem tempting.<br>

General question: Why should clicking away mindlessly only be throttled by thinking "another click another 14ct"? why not go for a wee bit of additional hassle by guessing exposure and distance?<br>

My go everywhere everyday 35mm film camera was / is a Kodak Retina. - I simply don't like anything wider than 50mm as my only lens, as long as I am planning to stay behind the camera. For beyond the 3rd beer I prefer AF SLRs with a standard zoom and usually a mid sized hotshoe flash. - Easier to keep my fingers from covering the lens there. <br>

I've never been happy with any built in flash and the resulting red eyes. less red eye prone hotshoe flashes seem to start at 8 Euro?</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>If you're going for the snapshot aesthetic fashion/pop culture flash photo look, pretty much any 35mm film P&S camera from the 1980s-'90s will do: Olympus Stylus/Epic; Yashica T4; Pentax UC-1; at least a dozen others. </p>

<p>Cameras with built-in flashes in close proximity to the lens produce an effect that's difficult to reproduce with outboard flash units - shadows very close to the body, and around the facial features, producing an outline effect that can be appealing with younger people, anyone with perfect skin or models with carefully applied cosmetics.</p>

<p>Regarding the red-eye effect, this isn't often a serious problem. Work in fairly bright ambient light to keep the pupils constricted - diffuse window light is good. Avoid photographing people from the side, especially if the eyes aren't looking directly into the lens. When in doubt, use a P&S digicam with built in direct flash to test models for vulnerability to red-eye.</p>

<p>Bright artificial room lights can help minimize red eye by keeping the pupils constricted, but watch for color temperature mismatches when shooting color slide film - incandescent room lights will produce a warm cast in ambient light beyond the flash range, a look that usually isn't too distracting; fluorescent light color casts can vary wildly from greenish to magenta, a look that might suit some offbeat aesthetics, especially for folks who like the look of cross processing. </p>

<p>With cameras lacking built in flash it's tricky to emulate the flash/lens proximity effect. A small side bracket can help keep the flash as close as possible to the camera body. Small flashes that can pivot to the side, like the Nikon SB-10, can help as well. Another solution is a macro flash rig, with only one side of the flash activated. Some photographers will use a flash sync cord and handhold the flash very close to the lens. For cameras that lack a standard sync socket you can use a hotshoe sync cord adapter.</p>

<p>While cameras like the Ricoh GR film series have a certain cachet they're overpriced on the used market and some owners have reported persistent problems with the telescoping lens mechanisms failing. Personally I'd stick with the most affordable of the many 35mm P&S film cameras. The end effect will look pretty much the same regardless of brand, and most P&S cameras from that era with prime lenses had at least sharp triplets. There was no shortage of very good 35mm P&S film cameras from that era.</p>

<p>I use my Nikon SB-10 with almost every camera I own that has a hotshoe, ranging from the Olympus 35 RC (which is dwarfed by even the smallish Nikon flash) to my Fuji X-A1 mirrorless digicam. If I want to avoid that direct flash look I'll use my "better" Nikon SB-800 for bounce flash or off camera with a sync cord.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>Technically, what you are maybe looking for would be a "modern film camera" rather than a "classic", since simple film point & shoots pioneered the AF and AE market for people who didn't want to mess with aperture and such like stuff.</p>

<p>The number of such cameras is legion. Most like spot to find them will be at the local thrift store and similar places. Stick with a 'name' brand like Nikon, Canon, and Pentax and make sure that batteries are still available for it. But almost everybody made them. Look for AA or AAA battery ones, rather than the now-banned mercury batteries.</p><div></div>

[Mike Gammill]

<p>At least one fixed lens Retina has a pop-up AG-1 bulb flashgun. About as close to built in flash as you can get if you want a classic manual camera. The Olympus that John recommended is available used so inexpensively you aren't risking much to give it a try. Although auto only, it does have a button that provides spot metering/spot focus for some extra control. Top shutter speed is 1/1000 second.<br>

There was a time you'd have gotten more responses on the Modern Film Cameras Forum, but the activity there has been down lately.<br>

My recommendation: Get a compact Olympus 35 RC or Canonet GIII 17 and a small shoe mount flash (like Sunpak 1600 or similar) Both cameras have shutter priority automation or full manual. With their leaf shutters the flash syncs at any speed so you can get some really nice daytime shots with fill flash. For more compactness, but only match needle exposure and no rangefinder take a look at the Rollei 35. Lens collapses into the body. Caveat- flash shoe is on bottom of camera.</p>

[Mike Gammill]

<p>One more recommendation: this one is more suited for the Modern Film Camera forum but a Pentaz ZX-5 is a compact SLR with built-in flash, interchangeable lenses, multiple exposure modes including full manual. Uses K mount Pentax lenses and provides autofocus for FA lens and works manually with KA lenses. Older K mounts fit but lens doesn't communicate with cameras electronics. Fairly inexpensive with a kit zoom or similar Tamron or Sigma. Very compact if you put a 50mm lens on it.</p><div></div>

[paul_wheatland]

<p>The best is the first autofocus Nikon 35 LAF cheap well made great glass available everywhere for very little. Find similar cameras that take (2) double AA alkalines rather than proprietary expensive hard to find batteries </p>

[mfophotos]

<p>The Nikon 35 ALF and the Canon AF35ML are top-notch 35mm P&S, that can be used with the flash off. $10-$15 is the going price on ebay, though you may find one in a thrift shop for a few dollars.</p>

[jim_momary]

<p>A tractor trailer would barely house all the point & shoots that have come and gone (slight hyperbole). Ask 200 people and you'll likely get nearly the same number of favorites/best choices in response. But let me wander away for a bit, seeing as you mentioned the Trip 35. :o)</p>

<p>The below photo shows a side-by-side of three interesting cameras. I have a 7 year old grand daughter who when she wants to use film, will borrow any one of the three cameras below.</p>

<p>To look like gramps, she'll take the trip 35 as it looks like a real old camera (her terminology). Scale focus tho, so you need to pay attention. Nice quality lens.</p>

<p>For when there is no time to fiddle, she'll take the Nikon L35AF. Autofocus, autoexposure and built in flash. It sports a darn fine lens for the dollar. Really a top notch cheapo of a camera. Fairly compact and light weight. Almsot free on ebay.</p>

<p>For use at the beach or pool, she'll take the Nikon L35AFAW. This is a relative of the L35AF. Auto everything too, flash, durable and it's waterproof to several feet.</p>

<p>You caqn judge the size. The Trip is teeny. The L35AF a bit bigger, but being plastic it is light. The AWAF is bigger, more rubberier and heavier. This is but one blink of what's out there. Happy choosing.</p>

<p>Jim</p>

<div></div>

[Rick Helmke]

<p>I really really like the Trip 35 and need to get one. I do have a Pentax IQ zoom that is excellent.</p>

<p>Rick H.</p>

[Matthew Currie]

<p>Obviously the choices here are nearly limitless, but among my favorites of the point and shoots with flash are the Olympus Stylus Epics, which came in both the fixed 35 lens version and several flavors of zoom. They often turn up at junk stores and tag sales for less than a new battery will cost, and that's not much. The fixed lens 35 is good and sharp. The zooms can be good, but the lenses can be a bit fragile and when damaged they develop odd flare.</p>

<p>Another nice little AF zoom I have and like is the Nikon Lite Touch Zoom 120 ED. This has a rather good lens, it's quite similar in operation to the zoom Olympuses, and it has the rather nice advantage of using the same IR remote control as many other Nikon cameras, including my digital SLR. It appears on surface to be very well made. Both this and the Olympus Epics take a CR-120 or 123 lithium battery, not too bad an expense, and still gettable, but a factor to remember. </p>

<p>On the ultra-simple front, there are the old Olympus XA family, with a rather slow and annoying detachable flash. They do flash, but are at their best with the flash off, when they become sharp, quiet street cameras. I like the XA2, which is a zone focusing point and shoot. They wind manually, and have a nearly silent shutter, and are well designed for pockets. Since it uses batteries only for exposure and shutter, it gets by with a couple of sliver oxide or alkaline (not mercury) button cells that last a long long time. The flash uses a single AA cell. </p>

<p>I have one of those AWAF Nikons shown above. It's pretty hefty but makes good pictures in and out of the water, and it seems to be virtually indestructible. You may be surprised by the quality of pictures that this one makes. It has special settings for use underwater with manual focus, and does pretty well there, and of course it's ideal for times when you might get the camera wet or muddy. It also takes standard AA batteries, a definite plus. They seem to be a bit rare, though, while the plain old L35AF is very common.</p>

<p>Minolta also made a P&S with a switchable 35 and 50 mm. lens, quite simple and reasonably good, and that also came in an all weather version, the "Weathermatic," with special settings for shooting underwater. Alas, my Weathermatic broke and no longers toggles focal lengths. It took decent pictures in and out of the water, and unlike the Nikon, it floats. However, I think the Nikon has a slight edge on optical quality. I have the non-Weathermatic version of this somewhere, but have not finished putting a roll of film through it, so I can't judge the pictures yet either. Some of these Minoltas took standard batteries and some only hard to find Lithiums, and some both, so be careful. </p>

<p>I think a fixed 35 mm point and shoot would be a good exercise in re-envisioning, if one is having difficulty with digital cameras that zoom. 35 is a bit on the wide side, and it takes a bit of thinking to compose. </p>

<p> </p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>There is something incredibly contradictory in "not wanting to click away" versus using a DSLR on auto and not understanding what aperture does, and having to many options. The only thing film realistically changes about that making you consider the cost per frame, otherwise it is just more of the same. The "clicking away" part is in your head, not something the camera really does.<br>

No, I am not a digital gear-head, recently most of what I shot has been film. I too do not want to spend too much money on film, development, prints, I do shoot more mindful and (try to) use film for those cases where I feel film has an advantage in the resulting image. That said, digital learnt me what works and does not work - because I could experiment, try freely without running too high costs. Plus, I shoot often in low light, where digital really does pull ahead (that is, I do not much like how ISO1600 film looks).</p>

<p>There are great responses on which camera to get, and by all means, sure get one; but at the same time, I would put in an effort to learn a bit more, tame the DSLR beast (get it out of auto at the very least). Only that way you will get the best from your film compact as well.</p>

[c_watson1]

<p>Compact low-end AF SLRs from the '90s usually had pop-up flashes--dirt cheap now and more durable than p&s models.</p>

[Andrew in Austin]

<p>Cameras with a built-in flash tend to be totally battery dependent for everything - including the film advance and rewind. Frequent use of the flash will diminish battery life.</p>

<p>An Olympus Stylus/Mju/Epic with the 35m/2.8 Zuiko would be the safe bet and should be cheap. There were millions of them sold during the point and shoot film era.</p>

<p>Best Regards,</p>

[c_watson1]

<p><em>An Olympus Stylus/Mju/Epic with the 35m/2.8 Zuiko would be the safe bet and should be cheap. There were millions of them sold during the point and shoot film era.</em></p>

<p>Most of them are now in landfills. They're poor value since they're all but impossible to get fixed. Working low-end Canon/Nikon/Pentax/Minolta AF bodies are stacked in bins for 10 bucks a pop in Toronto.</p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p><em>"An Olympus Stylus/Mju/Epic with the 35m/2.8 Zuiko would be the safe bet and should be cheap. There were millions of them sold during the point and shoot film era.</em><br>

Most of them are now in landfills. They're poor value since they're all but impossible to get fixed."<br /><br />The one I have is about 15 years old and is still going strong. One of the most reliable cameras I've ever had. The Olympus Stylus Epic -- the one with the fixed 35mm 2.8 lens, not the zoom models -- was highly regarded as a professional photographer's point and shoot. The camera that many pros carried for family snapshots and sometimes used to make a money shot when a picture popped up in front of them when they didn't have a "real" camera at hand. I've never seen a bad review of this camera. I would agree that almost no point and shoot camera with worth the cost of repairs when you can just buy a used one in working condition. But to call this classic of the genre a poor value is sacrilegious. </p>

[c_watson1]

<p><em>The one I have is about 15 years old and is still going strong. One of the most reliable cameras I've ever had. The Olympus Stylus Epic -- the one with the fixed 35mm 2.8 lens, not the zoom models -- was highly regarded as a professional photographer's point and shoot. The camera that many pros carried for family snapshots and sometimes used to make a money shot when a picture popped up in front of them when they didn't have a "real" camera at hand. I've never seen a bad review of this camera. I would agree that almost no point and shoot camera with worth the cost of repairs when you can just buy a used one in working condition. But to call this classic of the genre a poor value is sacrilegious.</em></p>

<p>That was always Oly's ad pitch for that particular Stylus Epic model--sneaky paparazzi getting busted for using them. It was a nice camera but its reputation for image quality surpassed its long-term durability(the Yashica T4 Super being another case). They're poor value <em>now </em>unless you can find a working one with no AF issues for peanuts--certainly not at a jacked-up price based on late '90s reports.</p>

[Matthew Currie]

<p>I have seen a lot of the zoom stylus Epics for anything from 10 dollars down to a dollar. Some of the lesser Olys of the same era turn up for a buck or two as well. It's harder to find the fixed lens ones, but they show up occasionally. Of course so do many other P&S cameras that make a good picture, though most are less elegantly compact. If you keep a good eye out during tag sale season, it's likely you'll find as many little old cameras as you can use.</p>

<p>I would second the ambivalence here on Stylus Epics, in that they were very good, but fairly easy to break, and used ones can be hard to evaluate. Still, my last fixed lens Epic cost a dollar. Can't go wrong with that! </p>

<p>The other problem with the "sneaky Paparazzi" model is that they default to flash, so unless you remember to turn the flash off every time you turn it on, you won't stay sneaky for long. For true sneakiness, the XA with its flash off remains supreme. </p>

[Andrew in Austin]

<p>Out of the 80'ies forward fixed-lens 35mm cameras, I only have owned the Olympus XA and XA2. Both models are getting long in tooth. Who knows how much life they have left int them?</p>

<p>Not many of the fixed-lens 35mm cameras <strong>introduced after 1980</strong> were built to last more than 100 rolls of film. Today, the vast majority of the plastic wonders are semi-disposables. You use them until they break.</p>

<p>Best Regards,</p>

[Mike Gammill]

<p>But consider that if you shop carefully you often pick up the Olympus Stylus Epic (or whatever P&S) for the price of a single use camera, the exception being the overpriced Yashica T4. Although I made several other suggestions a few posts back, I would say this in defense of the Olympus: it takes the larger 123A lithium cell rather than the smaller CR2 that many take. Good for many rolls of film. And the Stylus Epic is weather resistant (not dunkable though). BTW, if you go the P&S route, don't overlook some of the Pentax models. Before the silliness of super long P&S zooms began, Pentax made several competent P&S models. <br>

I think Freestyle sells the Vivitar Wide and Slim under a different name. But it only has a single speed shutter. Film exposure latitude does the rest. But why settle for only one shutter speed when many point and shoots have a wide range? It's like comparing a Dynaflow transmission to Chrysler's 8 speed automatic.</p>

[glen_h]

<p>OK, I recommend the Canon Shur-Shot WP-1. I had it at Great Wolf Lodge last year, and had lots of fun with it, doing things I would never do with a DSLR. But I think I got it really cheap. Though Amazon seems to have one for $75, I am pretty sure I paid a lot less.</p>

 

[Andy Collins]

<p>I think that the Oly Stylus Epic is a wonderful camera, but you have to be lucky to find one at a thrift store for a low price, or shop on the big auction site until you see one listed for a decent price. I also <em>most heartily</em> recommend the Nikon L35AF! It's a fairly straightforward camera that uses AA batteries but the lens is <em>phenomenal!</em> Most of them are available for under $20, usually well under that. The Yashica T4, in my opinion, is vastly overpriced. I've owned two and on both the AF seemed to be less than reliable. Sometimes it was mind-blowingly sharp, while at other times it was mediocre. I won't own another one of those unless I find one at the thrift store for $3.99 again like the first one I had. Yes, $3.99 in the box with no marks at all!</p>