Looking for advice on what film to use with this holder

[starvy]

<p>I am enquiring on behalf of someone else. The following plate/film holder came with a large format camera.<br>

<strong>Ideally, I am looking to find out if it is possible to find film for this that would be sold cut to size rather than having to perform the operation at home.</strong><br>

The glass plate that fits inside one side of the wooden holder measures 10.6 cm (4 and 1/4 inches) by 8 cm (3 and 1/8 inches).<br>

Thanks in advance.<br>

<img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/17781035-lg.jpg" alt="" width="675" height="460" /></p>

 

[starvy]

<p>The full holder:<br>

<img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/17781036-md.jpg" alt="" width="680" height="351" /></p>

[starvy]

<p>The camera that was part of the kit:<br>

<img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/17781034-lg.jpg" alt="" width="480" height="640" /></p>

[starvy]

<p>Front of the camera:<br>

<img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/17781033-lg.jpg" alt="" width="480" height="640" /></p>

[starvy]

<p>Closed film holder:<br>

<img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/17781032-lg.jpg" alt="" width="571" height="419" /></p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p>You will need to find a film sheath(s) to fit the holder before you can use film in it. <br>

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_format<br>

3 1/8 x 4 1/4 is "quarter plate" tintype.<br>

Film will most likely have to be custom cut to fit the sheath.</p>

[john_shriver]

<p>That is a book form "quarter plate" plate holder, for holding glass plates.<br>

You will need 3-1/4" x 4-1/4" sheet film. You will also need a spacer behind the sheet of film, to make it the same thickness as a glass plate. <br>

That isn't a stock film size anymore. But you happen to be in the annual ordering window for <a href="http://ilfordphoto.com/pressroom/article.asp?n=187">Ilford's ULF film program</a>, where they will custom cut sheet film to practically any size. You have to order by June 27, and pay in advance. You can get FP4+ or HP5+. <br>

(Color film would pretty much require cutting 4x5 film to size. With a roller cutter it isn't hard, and this type of holder isn't size-critical.)<br>

The spacer could be a plate of glass. Or you could avoid the sharp edges and use plastic, say a thick sheet of styrene (go to a craft or hobby store). Paint the styrene black after cutting to size to prevent halation.<br>

For other types of glass plate holders, you use Kodak Film Sheaths to use film in a holder designed for glass plates. They are designed for the type of plate holders that hold the plate in place with spring tension against one of the short ends. They are sheets of stamped aluminium, with folded up edges on the long side that you slide a sheet of sheet film into. This makes a "rigid plate" that you can then load into the plate holder like a glass plate.<br>

Only problem is that Kodak Film Sheaths have been out of production for decades. But they show up quite regularly on eBay. The 4x5 size can sell fast, but the other sizes tend to hang around.<br>

Film sheaths won't work for a book form plate holder, since the folded edges will disrupt the location of the film plane, and the pictures will be out of focus.<br>

A book form holder would also work well for wet-plate, either on glass, or tintypes. But that's rather exotic.</p>

 

[john_shriver]

<p>While that plate may measure 3-1/8" wide, that's not the "critical dimension" for 3-1/4" x 4-1/4" plates. The holders that used spring tension did so along the long length. The narrow width just had to be "not too wide."<br>

Again, I don't think film sheaths will work in this holder, as they could prevent the emulsion of the film from being in the right register, right up against the wood edge behind the dark slide. Maybe they are narrow enough that the folds won't hit the wood. But they aren't "necessary" for this type of holder.</p>

[john_shriver]

<p>Oh, cute camera. Very "chunky."</p>

[starvy]

<p>John, thank you very much for the information. The film sheath issue seems to be something that would be very important to find out.</p>

[dave_s]

<p>Not to rain on the parade, but getting it into shape as a user camera may be an unjustified drain on time and money, unless the camera has sentimental value. (Been there and done that with old cameras over decades. You'd think I'd learn.)</p>

<p>FWIW, Graflex Graphic photographers, a vanishing species, tend to shun the '34' Graphics, which take the same film, because they're hard to use. The sheet film is hard to find, and roll film holders are scarce. In your situation, the problem is compounded by the obsolete back.</p>

<p>There's a few people around who still cut their own quarter-plate sheet film from 4 x 5 for the 34 Graphics (but you said that's not on the cards). I think one of them who used to post on photo.net was Tim O'Brien ('tim in san jose') who hasn't been here since 2011.</p>

<p>If I were determined to make a user out of this, I'd look for a 6 x 9cm Graflok back from something like a trashed Graflex XL, and convert it to a rollfilm camera. Others here would have better ideas than me. </p>

<p>The lens is incidentally not bad-- coated Xenar from the early 1950s. The camera is about 100 years old (Thornton Pickard?)</p>

[christopher_ward2]

<p>By the look of the camera ,the brass clips allow the back to be removed. If I had the money to play with I would cut some plywood to fit the back and clips then buy a 4x5 spring back on-line. You would not damage the camera or back and you would get a chance to test the camera. A 3x4 image on 4x5 film may seem odd but less chance of damage to the original stuff and less money than a custom film/holder work around.</p>

[colin carron]

<p>You probably already know but the camera appears to be a Lancaster Special Brass-Bound Instantograph of about 1891. The lens and shutter would originally have been the Lancaster brass lens with the front fitting see-saw shutter powered by a rubber band.<br /> The back has the patent Lancaster hinges. The focusing screen is on four bifold hinges rather than the usual two simple hinges. This allows the screen to be hinged away from the back rather than flipped up as is more common. The whole back comes off with the clips as Christopher guessed.<br /> It is possible the bellows have also been replaced as they have the later diagonal corners rather than the square corners normally seen on Lancaster cameras of this date.<br /> The dark slide looks like the standard Lancaster quarter plate slides of the period. I have a similar quarter plate Instantograph (though the cooking variety rather the brass bound one as in your pic).<br /> It looks like Silverprint will do quarter plate size film sheets with a nominal 3x4 inch size but check to see which is closest.<br /> http://www.silverprint.co.uk/<br /> and look under Ilford > HP5 > Ultra Large Format<br /> Once you have the film I would possibly try using a stiff piece of card of the same size as the film to bring it to the glass plate thickness. Use the glass plate you have to get the right size and thickness for the backing card allowing for the sheet film thickness. If the film size isn't the same as the glass then you may need to be creative to keep the film sheet in the correct register.<br /> Nice find!</p>

[starvy]

<p>Thank you very much once again for the detailed information. I have passed it on to the camera's owner and I think he is going to try the silverprint route.</p>