EricM Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 <p>Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative and creation, there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. <strong>All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance which no man could have dreamed would have come his way.</strong> Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now. - Goethe </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chansonbleu Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 <p>Ah, come on Marie. It aint over till its over. At this time in your life you have other priorities. Do you really care if someone calls it an excuse or a choice?</p> <p>I'm looking forward to my retirement years to pursue my "passion" for photography. I excuse myself for not pursuing it earlier because I choose the easy life. You know, putting family first, University aint cheap especially on blue collar pay. But little by little I've accumulated equipment, skills and most significantly life experience that will serve me well in my pursuit. I've a project in mind and a plan to accomplish it.</p> <p>Take some steps in your pursuit. Keep a camera with you at all times. Look hard for interesting images in the mundane tasks of your life. Commit to taking some number (at least 20) of photo's a day. Once a week commit two hours to critique the weeks work. Journal you results. This method has helped me organize my free time and see things I otherwise would have missed.</p> <p>Good luck on your pursuit.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norma Desmond Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 <p><em>"nobody here is looking down on them"</em></p> <p>Brad, that's the crux of our disagreement, and the only reason I've been involved in this discussion, because I think you and Eric <em>are</em> looking down on them. Or at least I interpret someone referring to someone else making excuses as looking down on them.</p> <p>This heralding of drive starts to sound idealistic. I'm all for motivation, drive, and commitment, but when it starts to sound like the Nietzschean Ubermensch or some sort of replay of Triumph of the Will, I'm out of here. Since you used the word "pontificate" I'll tell you that some of your own posts (and likely some of mine) fit that bill. You come off, at least to me, as pontificating about those who can do it all. Well, a lot of people, including my own mom, couldn't do it all. She was an artist and gave that up in order to raise a family and spend 60 years of her life helping and nourishing a disabled husband, and my brother and I were never made aware of the extent of that until she died and we saw how much help my dad actually needed. She did a good job of protecting us from some of those hardships. She had regrets about not pursuing her art but she made choices and was, for the most part, content and happy with them. She didn't use her husband and family as excuses. We were reasons and causes, and I'm thankful we were.</p> <p>It's OK to have regrets and to not do it all. It's pretty human. And others calling those excuses, or referring to the path one chooses instead of their artistic passion as the easy life is, in my opinion, pretty condescending and lacking in empathy. As a matter of fact, I'll bet if we looked a little deeper into your friend and Eric's friend, we wouldn't find only the lustrous picture you guys are painting. Human beings tend not to be as sure of themselves and as completely regret-free and successful in following their passions as, say, a Pope might want to make it out to be, because Popes are often in the business of one-dimensionality when it comes to human endeavor and morality. Most of the passionate artists I know, and there are plenty, do have regrets. It's part of what goes into their art and it helps make their art genuine. </p> We didn't need dialogue. We had faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie1664878514 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Marie, cut throat photography is clearly not for you. Don't get lost there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieH Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 <p>I wish there was a like and dislike button here so I would not have to write. I just can't see being tooth and nail, stepping on your friends and families to make it to the top, is that the price you NEED to be willing to pay? I don't believe it. For me, its just not worth it. I raised a girl, now a tattoo artist, with a good conscience and a popular artist herself, with strong values, but still dedicated to her art with tons of friends. Voted 7th in Montreal tattoo artist in the annual best of Montreal. Without the confidence and support of her clients, and friends, this would not have been possible. There are better artists (she said) who never made the list at all. Could it be the tooth and nail drive, cut throat mentality worked against those others? I wonder. <br> There are a lot of elements that go into 'achievemnent', popularity is a big one, talent is variable, drive and ambiton without talent is useless. </p> Henri Matisse. “Creativity takes courage” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 <p>Unreal. Marie. Your posts are so confusing...you do a 180* in them. First, you're way off track with thinking that success somehow requires negatives</p> <blockquote> <p>I just can't see being tooth and nail, stepping on your friends and families to make it to the top, is that the price you NEED to be willing to pay?</p> </blockquote> <p>But then you confirm everything Brad and myself have been saying with this</p> <blockquote> <p>...now a tattoo artist, with a good conscience and a popular artist herself, with strong values, but still dedicated to her art with tons of friends. Voted 7th in Montreal tattoo artist in the annual best of Montreal. Without the confidence and support of her clients, and friends, this would not have been possible.</p> </blockquote> <p>Tattoo artist or photographer, doesn't matter, she followed her heart and desires and has a rich life without "being a cold hearted bitch" or "tooth and nail, stepping on your friends and families to make it to the top".</p> <p>The girl I first mentioned that moved from Ireleand, that took an intern with Magnum and asstited Steve Mccury, and is now doing viz fx with a dslr on feature films, <strong>is your daughter.</strong></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 >>> Brad, that's the crux of our disagreement, and the only reason I've been involved in this discussion, because I think you and Eric are looking down on them. No Fred, you are wrong, and apparently don't understand that celebrating those with drive and determination in pursuing their dreams does not come with the consequence of looking down on others that choose or are not able to go down that path. >>> You come off, at least to me, as pontificating about those who can do it all. No, I offered a personal first-hand experience anecdote to add to the discussion underway. I understand that's not particularly interesting to you, but it may be to others who believe a 40 hour a week job is an automatic barrier to pursuing one's dream(s). www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norma Desmond Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 <p>Brad, you actually didn't understand why I felt you were looking down on people, or at least chose not to address it. It wasn't because you admire others. The idealistic admiration you showed for drive and determination was a separate matter. The looking down I was talking about was because you suggested that those who choose not to follow their passion and talk about other choices they've made were making excuses and because you suggested that they chose an easy life instead of the more passionate road. I hope it's more clear now.</p> We didn't need dialogue. We had faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Sorry Fred, it isn't at all, and still not true. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norma Desmond Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 <p><em>"Sorry Fred, it isn't at all, and still not true."</em></p> <p>That's strange. If it's not at all clear, how could you know it's not true? I sense it's pretty damn clear and that's likely the problem. But enough of this. I'm going to move on.</p> <p>____________________________________________</p> <p>Eric, by the way, I take Marie to be saying that her own delaying or giving up on her passion has helped see to it that her daughter can follow hers. So, instead of Marie making excuses, she's giving her daughter opportunities . . . in the real world in which some of us live. One man's excuse is one woman's sacrifice. Marie is not being contradictory at all. She's living a real life, which is complicated.</p> We didn't need dialogue. We had faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Excellent move, Fred. I corrected your misunderstanding and it baffles why you want to hang on to it. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 <blockquote> <p>Or at least I interpret someone referring to someone else making excuses as looking down on them.</p> </blockquote> <p>Fred, the thread was going towards the gutter before we got spiritual, so I can see that. I suppose it matters not that I even pointed out that it wasn't intended to be offensive and hit a sensitive spot.</p> <p>re excuses. Maybe it takes one to know one? Over the years I've fooled others and more importantly, I've fooled myself. I've made every excuse in the book...and still do. So I recognize it when I see it. But I'm blessed that I'm doing what I want to do. It certainly wasn't were life lead me. Gosh no. It was choice and commitment and sacrifice...it wasn't easy or cheap. The reward is that I'm alive inside and have a rich life of experiences and even more awesome, like attracts like.</p> <p>You can have results, or excuses. But not both. I've learned this.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieH Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 <p>No Eric, my daughter's not doing viz effects with a dslr with that Mcurry dude. I don't see the correlation. Is the girl from Ireland's achievement more impressive? It depends in what circles you move. I don't think many lay people even know the photographer your speaking of. Drop by the Tattoo Box in Montreal, and ask for Janice. She'll do a good job by you even if I told her not to, because that's just how she rolls. Integrity.</p> Henri Matisse. “Creativity takes courage” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhooru Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 <blockquote> <p> But enough of this. I'm going to move on.</p> </blockquote> <p>That would be a good move as this going nowhere. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 <blockquote> <p>No Eric, my daughter's not doing viz effects with a dslr with that Mcurry dude. I don't see the correlation. Is the girl from Ireland's achievement more impressive? It depends in what circles you move. I don't think many lay people even know the photographer your speaking of.</p> </blockquote> <p>It's was a juxtaposition, a parallel, and not a correlation. Steve Mccurry did the famous photo of the Afghan woman that was on the cover of National Geographic. Maybe you've seen it?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieH Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Yes Eric I know who Mcurry is I admired his portfolio long ago. Honestly though I like and do admire his work there are so many other photographers I admire as well. Anyway best of luck on the ladder to success, and you have an interesting portfolio too. Cool stuff. Ok nuff said. Henri Matisse. “Creativity takes courage” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnital Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 <p>Marie,it is a decision of priorities and trying to fulfill your dreams at the same time.Iwas a RN as you ,but my passion was the arts, so for 35 years I worked part time at night and evning shifts (twice a week)raised my family ( with my mother's help) and on the same time went to art school 3 times a week... it was a real hard 4 years , Aside of that, ( but I was younger then..) a year after I have graduated art shool I have had my first exibition!I worked on my art home work night and days...</p> <p>9<br> with my mothers help</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnital Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 <p>Sorry for the typo...(but yes without my mother's help it was not (maybe )possible...but my drive was really strong ..and still is)...I work nowdays not especially with street photography, but I think that the subjects whatever they are, needs the same amount of devotion and energy to fulfill.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 <p>cheers Marie. Maybe see your daughter in a couple weeks too!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieH Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 <p>Yes Phina, that's what I've been trying to say. I've done it all alone, I went to school in order to support my child, I studied film at university. Keeping a stable home was my priority in rearing a child. It was tough. I also ran into bad relationships that sucked my life blood from me. I am happy now, and I can devote more time to photography. But I know how tough it can be if your passion for your art is all that drives you, I think its good to have a balance in life. When you succeed you need friends, and even more if you fail.<br> Ok Eric, just google Janice Beattie, she;s online and so is tattoo box she'll treat you well.</p> Henri Matisse. “Creativity takes courage” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnital Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 <p>Marie, I'm glad that you are happy now.As was said in this discussion, there are everyday life, survival problems,raising children( I have two ),old parents( my father died from Alzheimer)..and many other problems.<br /> You need help to overcome problems, but I think that the main thing, is to try to be optimistic..(as is said: - after 7 bad years are coming 7 good ones..)<br /> I hope it helps.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_thalheimer Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 <p>Pointing & pushing an iPhone button is not remotely close to street photography, whether it be environmental portraits or documentaries. It's really a joke</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 >>> Pointing & pushing an iPhone button is not remotely close to street photography, whether it be environmental portraits or documentaries. It's really a joke Why not, Ken? And why is it a joke? www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_thalheimer Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 <p>Brad, it's pretty much a joke when anyone with a smartphone takes a photo wherein there is rarely any thought to composition. Rarely does the user have any clue as to even the basics of photography, let alone street. Point the phone and press. This is photography? No, afraid not. Let alone successful street photos which are not easy. Almost anyone can take a pretty landscape. The beauty of the scene pretty much takes care of itself as long as the exposure is good. Environmental and street (Throw cemeteries into the fray) are not as easy as they seem. To raise up a smartphone and claim to have taken a good photo is as ludicrous as digitally changing a color photo to B&W simply by choosing greyscale.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 <p>Ah, process and materials. We'd overlooked those as factors in determining what is or isn't street photography and who is or isn't a street photographer.</p> <p>Recapping so far in the what/who is/isn't list of factors, we have:</p> <ul> <li>Volume: too many button pushes - NOT street photographer/photography</li> <li>Work and/or family responsibilities - NOT</li> <li>Cell phone - NOT</li> <li>Clothing - American Apparel, NOT; nude, maybe, if you're Terry Richardson; Domke or Billingham vest, definitely.</li> <li>Digital color to monochrome conversion - NOT</li> <li>Anything other than b&w film - NOT (corollary to above)</li> <li>Taking or teaching classes in How-to-SP - NOT</li> <li>Still working in a tired genre after 1990, other than ironically - Very definitely NOT</li> </ul> <p>No wonder Winogrand said the term and concept of street photography is silly. It's the tooth fairy of photography. Turns out it was our parents all along. And they have really embarrassing photos of us as kids to prove they're better and more honest photographers than most of us will ever be.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now