Is D610 with 2 oil spots from the beginning normal?

[Landrum Kelly]

<p>Jason, I actually just downloaded your image from Flickr and then moved it around on PS with the "hand" tool, and frankly I don''t see very much. If that is all that you can see at f/16 against the sky, then I would get on with shooting and forget about it. I routinely shoot with much more than that on the sensor, but I can't see it at the f-stops that I use. I know that you want a new sensor to be perfect, but unless it interferes with regular photography, then it is not worthy worrying about.</p>

<p>I once bought a new Kodak 14n (2004), and it was the first 3:2 aspect ratio DSLR that I had shot. (I had been shooting the Olympus E-20, and that camera has a 4:3 aspect ratio.) There was a horrible agglomeration of dust or whatever along the entire right vertical side of every frame of the Kodak. It was not many pixels wide, and so I simply cropped it out and never fooled with cleaning it. People differ a lot in their tolerance of these issues. I don't worry about it unless it actually shows in regular photography.</p>

<p>Oil would bother me, I have to admit, but I have never detected oil on my sensors. I have never had to do any wet cleaning, and I have had several DSLRs over the years. Luck is a factor, of course.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

[joseph_smith3]

<p>I too am having dust or oil spot problems with my D 610 that has about 5000-6000 clicks on it. On sky images taken at f 16, most of the spots are clustered in the upper left hand portion of the image. I believe that means that affected area of the sensor is at the bottom as there is a mirror effect.<br>

I did not do any sensor tests when I first got the camera so I have no comparative images to use. I am going to try a dry cleaning to see if most of the spots are removed and therefore dust (which I doubt.) They do another blue sky test at f 16. Then I am going to do a wet cleaning followed up with a blue sky test at f 16. If I still have spots, I am going to request a refund from Nikon or a credit towards a D 800. I lived through all of the oil spot issues with a D 600 and do not want to go through this all again with a D 610. <br>

For the record, I do not have these same sensor spot issues with my D 300s or D 700 that I still use on a regular basis.<br>

I will try and post a blue sky sensor image right now if anyone wants to see it. </p>

<p>Joe Smith</p><div></div>

[joseph_smith3]

<p>Here is the one I wanted to attach. Joe smith</p><div></div>

[Landrum Kelly]

<p>Joseph, I think that with the D600 the actual <em>dust</em> problem had nothing to do with the oil problem, and thus nothing to do with the shutter. The D610 has a new shutter, but the housing probably is the same as that of the D600. (There was some speculation that with the D600 the dust came from within the camera, which would imply that over time the amount of dust would diminish and finally disappear.)</p>

<p>Therefore it is quite possible that you will be getting some dust in spite of the new shutter in the D610. It will go away. Oil problems are more serious, I think, but those have (or had) apparently been remedied with the D610. I have not heard many complaints about the D610 until now, but every new camera is going to have varying amounts of dust. If your dust is manageable, then I would simply clean the dust off until the problem goes away.</p>

<p>On the other hand, with the number of specks that you are showing on that second picture, I would consider sending it back. This is getting ridiculous.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

<p> </p>

[joseph_smith3]

<p>Thanks Lannie, I just emailed my photo retailer for their thoughts.</p>

<p>Joe Smith</p>

[jason_min]

<p>Thank you everybody for excellent comments.</p>

<p>Thank you <a href="/photodb/user?user_id=6789788">Don Bright</a> for the comments. I do not understand why people say to clean the sensor of the brand new camera from the beginning. Do I not have the right to have the clean sensor at least at the beginning after paying 2k?</p>

<p><a href="/photodb/user?user_id=248385">John Hinkey</a>, if I used the D610 for some time taking thousands of pictures and then have some spots like this, I would feel less unhappy. Why do I have to deal with cleaning the senor on the brand new camera.</p>

<p><a href="/photodb/user?user_id=4802905">Andy L</a>, <a href="/photodb/user?user_id=423641">Landrum Kelly</a>, if the spots look like from the dust, I uploaded the D600 dirty sensor photo here </p>

<p>

<p>If they are not oil spots, then my D610 spots are not oil spots, which I seriously doubt.<br>

<a href="/photodb/user?user_id=24372">Shun Cheung</a>, I do not want to be a bad customer, but I think I have the right to have a clean and good camera at least at the beginning after paying 2K.</p>

<p><a href="/photodb/user?user_id=423641">Landrum Kelly</a>, there are 2 spots on near left top and center top. It is not big, but how can I be assured that there will not be much more down the road if it has already 2 within 200 click count.</p>

<p><a href="/photodb/user?user_id=857417">Joseph Smith</a>, maybe we are facing the similar issue. Misery loves company, I guess. I feel that it is not just me. <br>

<br /><br /><br>

My point is why do I have to deal with this spots from the new camera where they claimed that they fixed the oil spot problems in the new D610. Another point is if I already have this problem with the spots on the sensor from the beginning, how can I be ensured that I will not have any further and more spots down the road when then it is already too late to have the camera exchanged.</p>

<p>I am not familiar with cleaning the sensors with swab or wet cleaner except for Rocket Blower. I will learn when I need it after much use of DSLR, but why do I have to bother with cleaning the sensor from the brand new camera?</p>

<p>Since Nikon announced that they fixed the oil issue, this is a quite a surprise to me.<br>

Thank you</p>

<p> </p>

[john_hinkey]

<p>Jason -</p>

<ul>

<li>Again - you don't know for certain that these are oil spots - they look just like typical dust spots too</li>

<li>You only have two spots on the entire image - which is actually very very good and very different from the many many oil spots typically generated by the D600 problem</li>

<li>Spots this small you only really see them at f/16 - which is typical (or at larger apertures with longer lenses that are very telecentric at larger apertures)</li>

<li>As soon as you take the body cap off and mount a lens and take an image with a new camera you are likely get some dust on the sensor - this is completely normal</li>

<li>I've cleaned my D800 many times and I've never been able to get each and every dust spot gone or if I did manage to do that a spot or two usually comes back after a bit of use. Totally normal. I try to get the "big" dust spots gone and not sweat the small ones that can barely be seen.</li>

<li>With two spots I think you are over-reacting.</li>

<li>Get it professionally cleaned if they bother you and find out if they are actually oil - you can't tell if it's an oil or dust spot by looking at the image produced by the sensor - you have to look at the sensor surface using a sensor loupe or some other appropriate sensor surface imaging tool.</li>

<li>Dust spots on a digital interchangeable lens camera are something that you will have to deal with. Either learn to clean the sensor yourself or find a place that can do it for you. Sometimes I go many months with just a few spots that are not worth cleaning, other times I need to clean it once a week because I've taken a lot of images in a really dusty place with a lot of lens changes.</li>

</ul>

[Landrum Kelly]

<blockquote>

<p><a href="/photodb/user?user_id=423641" rel="nofollow">Landrum Kelly</a>, there are 2 spots on near left top and center top. It is not big, but how can I be assured that there will not be much more down the road if it has already 2 within 200 click count.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>If you have to go to f/16 to see two tiny spots, I just wouldn't worry about it. If it gets worse, that is another thing. Why not just go out and do some ordinary photography, with the usual range of apertures that you use? That is the best test, after all.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

[jason_min]

<p><br />Isn't photography an art, and if so, are you not supposed to seek perfection?<br>

I do not know if I am overly picky and others do not care.<br>

I am kind of vacillating whether to return for exchange or not since so far it has 2 small oil spots, and I live it with. If this 2 small oil spot is rather normal for the new D610, then, there is no point for exchange since another one might have also. And I will just keep the current one.</p>

[andylynn]

Okay, here's the thing. Dust happens. This is just normal with digital cameras.

 

Before the D600, 99% of the DSLRs out there in use had a bit of dust. 99% of people didn't notice. Then there was one

model that had some stuff get on the sensor, and now people are shooting blank skies at f16 and looking at the results at

400% and think any spot means the camera is broken - but really, it's just an indication that your camera is normal.

 

You've got some dust on your sensor. There are three options:

1. Clean the sensor.

2. Freak out.

3. Don't shoot blank skies at f16.

[Landrum Kelly]

<p>Jason, you seem to be insistent that it is oil. If those are two very small dust spots visible at f/16, then dust will not be seen for the vast majority of shots. Occasionally it is necessary to remove a dust spot on a file in Photoshop, but what you are describing will not require that. If it happens too much, it is time for a cleaning. You are definitely not anywhere near that point. </p>

<p>The camera is a tool. It won't be perfect. Nor will real world photos.</p>

<p>Can you not see how different your case is from Joseph's above? He may have a legitimate complaint. Since you are going to extraordinary measures just to see the slightest bit of dust, I am not sure that anyone at Nikon could take you seriously. We're not sloppy shooters here, and we're not Nikon fan boys, but we know what is important and what is not. Shoot some more before you decide to send it back. At present it would be silly to send it back. For Joseph, sending it back might indeed be the right thing to do. I am not sure, but that would be my likely choice in the same situation.</p>

<p>Just shoot the darned thing in real world situations before you decide to send it back. For what it is worth, I am the one who raised the dust issue on this forum over a year ago, and I have never tried to minimize the problem, but the problem of dust must be put in some perspective.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

[scottelly]

<p>Andy, there is another option. Get a Sigma, so there is a "shield" stopping dust from getting into the mirror box and eventually onto the sensor.</p>

<p>;)</p>

[ant_nio_gomes]

<p>The buyer has the right to expect that a new machine has a clean, no signs of dust sensor, however, and as with dead pixels can probably be a minimum threshold for customer complaints and protection of the manufacturer.<br>

In such a case, will the manufacturer be obliged to accept the return of the equipment or can consider this as post-sales support, just cleaning the sensor?<br>

Who bought a D600 and returned it for fear or have had problems with oil on the sensor and did not completely overcome the situation can now run the risk of going through something like a "post-traumatic" reaction towards any other machine from the same manufacturer.<br>

So perhaps the most convenient would be use the "no questions asked returning policy" choosing another brand and if finding dust again to see that as a natural thing to happen and that can be solved with a sensor cleaning. Otherwise this buyer will run a serious risk of returning to the starting point.</p>

[andylynn]

Scott, be careful, I think this OP might take you seriously! If he got a Sigma you'd be the only person who could answer

his questions and you'd take the blame for every dust spot.

[ShunCheung]

<blockquote>

<p>The buyer has the right to expect that a new machine has a clean, no signs of dust sensor</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sure, but once you start using it, dust is simply part of reality.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Okay, here's the thing. Dust happens. This is just normal with digital cameras.<br>

Before the D600, 99% of the DSLRs out there in use had a bit of dust. 99% of people didn't notice.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That is also normal with film cameras. Read my story with lint stuck on the shutter area on my F5 that affected every image from a week-long trip above.<br>

It is not really 99% of the DSLRs have a bit of dust. It is more like 100%.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Isn't photography an art, and if so, are you not supposed to seek perfection?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You should seek perfection in your final output, namely your images. Not the tools you use. A lot of great photographers use cameras and lenses full of ware and dings. Serious dust on the sensor can affect your final image, so you definitely want to clean those. If you are going to capture images of a uniform sky at f22 on a daily basis to check for dust, you will drive yourself crazy pretty soon, just like that guy who exchanges every camera and every lens he buys 2, 3 times. I have seen his images showing "defects" from his new lens; I thought the images looked fine, and I think I am already picky about equipment.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>As part of my up-coming Nikon Df review, I have been capturing images of the camera and lens themselves.</p>

<p>Attached is an image comparing the three different Nikon 50mm AF-S lenses. I used a Nikon D700 (not D600 or D610; I own neither one) with a 60mm/f2.8 AF-S macro at f22 and three flashes. I am attaching a large image so that it will show up as a link.</p>

<p>I wet clean that D700's sensor about 3 weeks ago and I only use that camera indoors at home since then, with fewer than 100 actuations. However, you can easily see dust spots all over the place over a white background @ f22, which I used to gain depth of field.</p>

<P>

I should point out that another major headache with this type of product photography is dust on the subjects. Frequently, I have wiped the lenses and cameras as well as use a blower to blow away any dust on the surface, but I still end up using the healing brush to do some clean up in PhotoShop.

</P><div></div>

[john_hinkey]

<blockquote>

<p>Isn't photography an art, and if so, are you not supposed to seek perfection?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, but in this case perfection is unobtainable and you must face the realities of digital sensors - they get dusty and you have to clean them. Your two spots are not out of the ordinary by any measure.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I do not know if I am overly picky and others do not care.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, you are being overly picky and others do care since they are taking the time to respond to your posts.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I am kind of vacillating whether to return for exchange or not since so far it has 2 small oil spots, and I live it with. If this 2 small oil spot is rather normal for the new D610, then, there is no point for exchange since another one might have also. And I will just keep the current one.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Once again - you have no idea if these are oil spots so I would highly suggest you quit calling them that. I would be thrilled if that's the only spots I had on my sensor.<br>

Either return/exchange it or go find someone that can look at the sensor, see what kind of particles they are and have it professionally cleaned.<br>

There are a lot of experienced digital photographers giving you really good advice, but you seem to not want to take it.</p>

[john_hinkey]

<p>When I had my D700 I had a real continuing dust problem that I thought would be even worse when I got my D800, but Nikon used some magic engineering I suppose as I've had far far less dust issues with the 36MP sensor of the D800 than the 12MP sensor of my long-since-sold D700. This in spite of tons of dust particles inside my mirror box of the D800.<br>

I've been really impressed with my m43 gear where the sensor is exposed directly all the time - I hardly ever get even a singe speck of dust on my 3 cameras.</p>

[jason_min]

<p>Thank you all for your comments.<br>

I usually shoot landscape and portrait. If I shoot landscape, I use f16 many times during the day and if I do, the sky is usually at top area of the photo. Then, the spots on the top will be visible and will be a bother to me.</p>

<p>My original question is to D610 owners to see if they see spots like this on the brand new D610. I did not want any genralized comments on DSLR sensors. I know over time, there will be spots and dusts, but not from the beginning. If other D610 owners have these as mine, I just settle for Nikon rather un-superior product quality and unfulfilled promise. Otherwise, if no other D610 owners have this, then mine is not normal. That is what I wanted to find out.<br>

Thank you for your comments.</p>

[andylynn]

Jason, the advice you've been getting is sound, as it applies to all interchangeable lens cameras, and your D60 is an

interchangeable lens camera.

 

People who shoot landscape regularly with high res cameras clean their sensors all the time. I know guys who do it every

time they go out and shoot. I think that might be overkill, but you're complaining about TWO dust spots. Two! Either clean

them or spot then in post or ignore them, but if your approach is to pretend that the existence of dust in the world is

attributable to Nikon and become indignant as a consumer you're not going to get much done.

[ShunCheung]

<blockquote>

<p>If I shoot landscape, I use f16 many times during the day and if I do</p>

</blockquote>

<p>And at f16 and 24MP, diffraction is going to affect sharpness on every one of those images.</p>

[Landrum Kelly]

<p>If you are shooting f/16 with good glass, in most cases you are negating the value of the glass. Anything past f/5.6 or f/8 is rarely necessary in landscape photography with 35mm format.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

[scottelly]

<p>You know what's weird Lannie? For some reason I seem to get my best results at f8 and f11. Sometimes I shoot at f16, but like you're saying, it seems like the photos are slightly softer, presumably because of diffraction. I wish I had a couple of zooming tilt-shift (perspective control) lenses. A 15-24mm f2.8 PC and a 35-70mm f2.8 PC would be awesome! (as long as they're super sharp at f5.6) It would be nice to have image stabilization too, like in a Sony A99. In fact, maybe a set of auto-focus Zeiss zooming PC lenses in Sony mount on a couple of Sony A99 cameras would be the answer! ;)</p>

[alan_bessler_sr]

<p>Just clean the sensor and move on !! thanks.</p>

[i_b5]

<p>Help please.<br>

I purchased a Nikon D610 through Amazon 11 months ago.<br>

Recently, I began shooting sunsets and in post processing noticed a great deal of dust and/or oil around the corners of the image. I looked at earlier images and noticed the problem had started about 5-6 months after I purchased the camera. I am very careful with my camera and could not image how this was happening.<br>

Nikon recommended I had the camera cleaned at one of their authorized repair shops, which I did. However, the technician said the sensor was scratched and wondered if I bought a used camera.<br>

I bought the camera new directly from Amazon. No one before this technician had been anywhere near the sensor. Other than the camera self-cleaning, the sensor had never been touched. I never allowed anyone to use my camera and kept the 28-300 lens attached most of the time. All this to say, damage could only have been caused by either Nikon, Amazon or the Nikon authorized repair shop.<br>

I immediately told Nikon about the scratched sensor, and the fact that the dust/oil problem returned two weeks after Nikon's authorized repair shop had cleaned the sensor. Nikon asked me to send the camera to them for repair.<br>

I paid about $70 to return the camera and I expected Nikon to honor its warranty, but it is now demanding $680 to repair the scratched sensor. I did not touch the sensor, so why does Nikon want me to pay for repairing it? </p><div></div>