eric_arnold Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 <blockquote> <p>it is possible to get good action shots in extreme low-light with the 35/1.4 and a fast SD card</p> </blockquote> <p>forgot to post a shot with this combo. here 'tis:</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelph_young Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 <p>The Fuji X-Pro1 is so close to the Leica in handling. Excellent image quality. The X-E1 or X-E2 is a bit smaller and still excellent.<br> The lenses are beautiful. <br> Added benefit of adding an InfraRed screw on filter to the 14, 23 or 35mm lenses and shooting infrared without hotspots - without having to convert the camera.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric_arnold Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 <p>remember the XE1 body is $600 by itself, and the 18-55 is $600 if purchased separately. so that's quite a deal at the sale price. that extra $350 you'd pay for the A6k and 18-55 will get you a 27/2.8 pancake at current sale prices which is a super-compact street kit, plus $150 left over. or you can spend an extra $100 and get the 35/1.4, which is a superb optic.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shutterbud Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 <p>Jacques, I stongly suggest you buy body-only and then get yourself a good prime lens. Kit lenses, no matter how good, cannot compete with primes. I'd even suggest buying the body only and then if necessary, saving up for a 50mm equiv. prime.<br> It really is worth it.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc_chang1 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 <blockquote> <p>Jacques, I stongly suggest you buy body-only and then get yourself a good prime lens. Kit lenses, no matter how good, cannot compete with primes.</p> </blockquote> <p>Agree; otherwise, you may as well consider high end compacts that uses the 1 in sensor, and they are pocketable. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_m3 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 <p>The X-E1 competes with the NEX-6 not the A6000. The A6000 betters the autofocus of the Fuji XT1. Here it is against the nex-7 and a65. <a href="http://sonyalphanex.blogspot.com/2014/03/sony-a6000-vs-alpha-a65-vs-nex-7.html">http://sonyalphanex.blogspot.com/2014/03/sony-a6000-vs-alpha-a65-vs-nex-7.html</a></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric_arnold Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 <blockquote> <p>Jacques, I stongly suggest you buy body-only and then get yourself a good prime lens. Kit lenses, no matter how good, cannot compete with primes.</p> </blockquote> <p>for optical quality, this is generally true. but... as i said earlier, the XE1+ 18-55 deal for $800 means you are essentially paying only $200 for a $600 lens which has superior build (compared to other kit lenses), a faster aperture range, is very sharp and has effective stabilization, which most primes dont have. at that price, its a no-brainer, especially because if you decide you dont like it, which you won't, you can sell it for $400 used. there are always going to be times when zooms are more advisable than primes. (the image is a SOOC jpeg, btw)</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laur1 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 <p>The Fuji 18-55/2.8-4 is not a typical kit lens. Like with many of their lenses, this one shows that Fuji was targeting the enthusiast market.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andylynn Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 <p>You can't just write off all zoom lenses. That's nuts. These are good lenses at very reasonable prices. The Fuji one is as good as a lot of companies' f/2.8 zooms, and the Sony ones are severely underrated - they're not as good as the Fuji but they're pretty sharp and very useful for a lot of applications.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric_arnold Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 <p>having just traveled down this same road, i would get the XE1 kit unless you really think you're gonna shoot a lot of action, in which case an XT1 or the Sony A6k might be better. IMO a slow kit lens isnt great for action shooting, though (18-55 is 2.8-4, so just fast enough), and a prime limits what you can shoot to some degree. my other setup is a D3s with 24-70/2.8, so i use the XE1 when i want to go light and/or have max. control over DoF.</p> <p>if you do go for the Fuji, it's probably worth it to add a prime. i went for the 35 b/c i already have an x100, but the 23/1.4 is supposed to be very good. i also swooped the 27/2.8 which is about as sharp as the 18-55 but is very compact. so far i've been mainly using the 35, but i wouldnt want to be without a zoom. the 18-55 is so much lighter and more compact than the 24-70, it's not really a big hassle to carry a few lenses.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhooru Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 <p>Everyone loves the Fuji's and I would have gotten one, but I also wanted to explore some video so I just got the Lumix GX7, I think it fits everything on the OP's list and w/adapters can take virtually every lens out there. The video and the chance to use some of my other brand great lenses is what convinced me. I did one scene shoot for work using the cheapo kit lens and they came out quite usable and looked great. I think you almost can't go wrong these days, its just balancing features and cost, most all these cameras take fine pictures. Best to go to your local and see what captures you. Is this like choosing a wand in Harry Potter, or is it the wand chooses the wizard?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andylynn Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 <p>All of these cameras shoot video and can take other brand lenses on adapters.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Made with Fuji's 16-50mm (at 16mm) lightweight plastic kit zoom. ISO 6400, f/3.5, 1/55 sec <P> <center> .<P> <img src= "http://www.citysnaps.net/2014%20Photos/Market%20Dish.jpg"><BR> <i> Market Street, San Francisco • ©Brad Evans 2014 </i> <P> .<P> </center> www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laur1 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 <blockquote> <p>Made with Fuji's 16-50mm lightweight plastic kit zoom. ISO 6400, f/3.5, 1/55 sec</p> </blockquote> <p>That image would not encourage me to pick that 16-50 lens. It just doesn't look like it's focused anywhere - maybe there is some motion blur at play, but then it would be better to share a daylight example instead.</p> <p>I could easily sell the Olympus kit lens with selected samples:<br> <img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5456/8907908057_b17e225b27_c.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="600" /><br> But the fact is that I'd still recommend a set of prime lenses over it, or the excellent 12-40/2.8 zoom. Though, as conventional kit lenses go, it is a very decent one.</p> <p>Fortunately, the Fuji 18-55 is in a different class than the 16-50 and it should be visibly better than the Olympus kit lens as well.<br> <br> Between Sony and Fuji, if you look at the lenses available, the choice is clear: Fuji. Sony won't do much more for their APS-C mount, so what you see today is all you'll get for quite some time. OTOH, Fuji is busily extending their lineup and are not distracted by having to maintain three systems as Sony does.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 >>> That image would not encourage me to pick that 16-50 lens. It just doesn't look like it's focused anywhere - maybe there is some motion blur at play, but then it would be better to share a daylight example instead..<P> No, not motion blur. For that photo Lightroom Clarity was set very negative. It's part of the process I use in a lot of my photos. For me, I rarely find photos that are about (or exemplars of) sharpness very evocative or interesting. More examples <a href= "http://www.citysnaps.net">here</a>.<P> <center> .<P> <img src= "http://www.citysnaps.net/2014%20Photos/TwoBridgeLights.jpg"><BR> <i> San Francisco • ©Brad Evans 2014 </i> <P> .<P> </center> www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_gillette Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>I'd expect as you go along, or this thread does, you'll probably get some very persuasive reasons - written or images - to choose several different cameras. So, owning an NEX-6 and the 16-50 kit lens, I'd suggest for no negative reasons, to wait for the A6000. It sounds even better and enough so to make the wait a good idea. Then, spend some time with as many of the cameras as you can and go for the one that best fits your subjective interests. I think the recommended bodies are likely to all be technically very competent and competitive so finding the best fit for you may be the better approach.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les_lammers Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>Fuji does not have a 'kit' lens per se. The 18-55 is an excellent lens.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_smith110 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>My advice is going to be a little different from everyone else. You asked about getting just the kit lens on the Sony and then maybe upgrade if you dont like it. Thats how many people (including myself in the past) have thought about gear purchases. My advice (and the subject of an upcoming blog of mine) is this.</p> <p>Buy the cheapest, used body that is going to give you the functions you need and spend as much as possible on the glass.</p> <p>For instance KEH.com has a excellent condition XE-1 for 419.00. An excellent condition NEX 6 is available for 465.00. That is 150-200 more to pour into lenses. It is up to you to decide where that money would be best spent. A better zoom, an extra prime, the possibilities are many and varied. And the major component in creating imagery (right after the skill of the photographer) is lens quality.</p> <p>http://www.keh.com/camera/Fuji-X-System-Camera-Bodies/1/sku-FX029991321720?r=FE<br /> http://www.keh.com/camera/Sony-E-System-Camera-Bodies/1/sku-SE029991313130?r=FE</p> <p>KEH is a reputable dealer with a 30 day return policy. I have used them many times, even returning an item. I dont hesitate to recommend them to anyone.</p> <p>You can also cruise around their selection of used lenses for both systems. They have a lot of good deals. One of the best deals right now that you can get anywhere is the new price for the Fuji 35/1.4. That is a cracker of a lens for an awesome price. As for zooms, the Fuji kit zoom is one of the best on the market, hands down.</p> <p>Reading all this you would think I am a Fuji shooter, but I shoot Sony. I have shot with the NEX 7 for the last couple of years and absolutely love the little camera. Here is my flickr set from my 7.</p> <p>http://www.flickr.com/photos/8539414@N07/sets/72157629936411965/</p> <p>I had to make the hard decision recently when I decided to upgrade on choosing between the Sony A7 and Fuji XT1. The decision was a lot harder then it should have been. I ended up with the A7 for several different reasons. I shoot old manual focus glass on my cameras almost exclusively so either camera was good in that regard. If however native AF lenses were on my radar I would have chosen the Fuji. Im sorry, but Fuji just makes better lenses then Sony. They have an incredibly strong line of fast prime lenses and their zoom lineup is filling out nicely. Sony is just all over the place with its lenses and it shows. The Fuji's are also, in my opinion, better made, more beautiful and they have an aperture ring. Win, win, win.</p> <p>Im not sure what type of shooting you do but you may find that your old SLR glass is perfectly suitable for what you are trying to shoot. Thats another advantage of buying used from KEH. Buy one of the cameras and a cheap adapter for your lenses and shoot with it for a few days before you spend any money on AF lenses. You might be surprised. As you can see from my flickr pages, some nice and compelling imagery can be pulled from these small cameras using old lenses. And if you dont like the camera you bought you can always return it and try the other. You can look here as well for the images using these old lenses from my A7/</p> <p>http://www.flickr.com/photos/8539414@N07/sets/72157641534772013/</p> <p>Heres my take on the bodies. The NEX cameras, due to their large grip, have much better ergonomics then the XE bodies. You can add a grip (and even a thumb grip thingy) to make the XE's better but the NEX cameras just feel better out of the box. The only thing that would make me steer away from the XE-1 is that during the short time I was shooting with it I noticed the EVF wasnt as nice as what was in my NEX 7. The EVF in my camera is perfectly useable and I compare every other EVF against it since it was my first and I have used it for so long. The XE-1's EVF was indeed a little inferior. Not by much, and if I had never used the Sonys I probably wouldnt have noticed, but there you go. You can, btw, get a used XE2 from keh for a little more. I think it has a better EVF. Having said that, the EVF in the new XT1 blows everything away, hands down.</p> <p>So those are just some thoughts. I would seriously buy as cheap a body as you can and then pour the rest into the best quality lenses you can get, new or used. Bodies fall in price all the time whereas a good lens will hold its value. Buying one of the cameras used will give you the option of getting a good deal on a better body down the road. Or picking up another used body of a newer camera model. But this will give you good glass from day one.</p> <p>And again, behind your skill as a photographer good glass is the single most important aspect in creating a compelling image.</p> <p>Go for the glass.</p> <p>EDIT<br> I thought about this after the post. But if you really think that your old manual focus glass might work for you then you might want to consider buying a body only A7, as I did. There is a great deal on them right now for 460 bucks off the price if you trade in any old camera, working or not. That drops the body only A7 down to 1239.00. Which is <em>stupid </em>crazy for what you get. I got 300 off my A7 a few weeks ago with a similar deal thru Mikes camera.</p> <p>http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/up-to-460-trade-in-credit-on-the-a7-and-a7r-at-bhphoto-a7r-for-1838/</p> <p>Seriously look at your old SLR glass collection. If it covers your needed focal lengths and you enjoy the image quality you get from them then it is worth serious consideration. These new mirrorless cameras have really breathed new life into old lens systems. This almost goes counter to the advice I gave above, but putting this much into a body only makes perfect sense if you have a great stable of old lenses ready to go. Then you can 'save up' for some of the FE auto focus lenses down the road.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric_arnold Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 <blockquote> <p>Fuji does not have a 'kit' lens per se. The 18-55 is an excellent lens</p> </blockquote> <p>they sell it in kits. ergo it is a kit lens. it's just better in almost every way than other kit zooms.</p> <blockquote> <p>Im sorry, but Fuji just makes better lenses then Sony. They have an incredibly strong line of fast prime lenses and their zoom lineup is filling out nicely. Sony is just all over the place with its lenses and it shows. The Fuji's are also, in my opinion, better made, more beautiful and they have an aperture ring. Win, win, win.</p> </blockquote> <p>what Sony does have is a better-implemented focus peaking function. but that's really more for legacy glass users.</p> <blockquote> <p>The NEX cameras, due to their large grip, have much better ergonomics then the XE bodies. You can add a grip (and even a thumb grip thingy) to make the XE's better but the NEX cameras just feel better out of the box.</p> </blockquote> <p>i did add a thumb grip for like $15. made a big difference.</p> <blockquote> <p>I would seriously buy as cheap a body as you can and then pour the rest into the best quality lenses you can get, new or used... Go for the glass.</p> </blockquote> <p>to me, this is where Fuji really does win. their glass is good, very good, and they are committed to making it. with sony, they make some interesting bodies but the glass selection just lags behind. also they are spread out so much among their different products, you have to wonder how much glass is even a priority for them. Fuji doesnt have to split its efforts between FX and DX -- all their glass works on all their bodies without adaptors. their cameras also use the same batteries and chargers. that's a point of consistency that i dont have right now even with Nikon. im seriously thinking of getting an XT1 and using it with the xE1 as a 2-body system. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 >>> im seriously thinking of getting an XT1 and using it with the xE1 as a 2-body system.<P> I eventually went that way a couple weeks ago, originally starting with the X-A1 and excellent 16-50 kit lens. That lens and the 23mm f/1.4 are what I now use daily with my X-T1. The X-A1 body will be converted to IR - something I enjoyed shooting in the past, and want to get back into.<P> This speaks to the value of Fuji lenses. The 16-50 is a superb lens (I've also used the 18-55, also excellent), and after a few weeks of use on my X-A1, knew it would be killer with the X-T1 I suspected I would eventually purchase.<P> <center> .<P> <img src= "http://www.citysnaps.net/2014%20Photos/Metropolis.jpg"><BR> <i> Martinez, CA • ©Brad Evans 2014 </i> <P> .<P> </center> www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>Hey, a word for my Cinderella X100. No S.</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>"That image would not encourage me to pick that 16-50 lens. It just doesn't look like it's focused anywhere - maybe there is some motion blur at play, but then it would be better to share a daylight example instead."<a name="00cT1f"></a><a href="/photodb/user?user_id=3668464">Laurentiu Cristofor</a></p> <p>Your photos are very nice, Laurentiu. Enjoyed looking at them.</p> <p>But Brad is in a different place. You need eyes and Photographic maturity to see that.</p> <p>That cannot be given to you...... only you can seek and find.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p> better to share a daylight example"</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laur1 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>@David</p> <blockquote> <p>Buy the cheapest, used body that is going to give you the functions you need and spend as much as possible on the glass.</p> </blockquote> <p>That was actually my advice too, very early in the thread:</p> <blockquote> <p>I suggest to investigate what lenses you want to use and decide based on that. </p> </blockquote> <p> <br> @Brad:</p> <blockquote> <p>For me, I rarely find photos that are about (or exemplars of) sharpness very evocative or interesting.</p> </blockquote> <p>That is fine, but then on what basis do you recommend that lens? You can always blur a sharp image to get your results, but it will be much harder to get a sharp image if the lens is not capable of it.<br> <br> @Allen: </p> <blockquote> <p>But Brad is in a different place. You need eyes and Photographic maturity to see that.</p> </blockquote> <p>My point was that the place he's in makes him happy with any lens and thus not the best reference for equipment</p> <blockquote> <p>better to share a daylight example</p> </blockquote> <p>That lens can take images, but why would you prefer it over the Fuji one is the question? Leaving your skill aside, what do you think your image says about the lens?<br> <br> I don't see anything optically special in the results. I am not talking about the artistic aspects of the presented samples - that part is irrelevant here - if you think the lens is enough for what you want to express, that is fine, but on what basis do you recommend it over the other option being presented here?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 >>> That is fine, but then on what basis do you recommend that lens? My experience using it extensively and liking its properties. Do you own and use one? If not why do you not recommend it with no personal experience? How about the 18-55 lens? >>> My point was that the place he's in makes him happy with any lens and thus not the best reference for equipment Any lens? Really. You've spoken to me and are familiar with my work, projects, etc? >>> I don't see anything optically special in the results. I think I understand where you are coming from. You are looking for photos that show and demonstrate special lens properties. For some photographers results are about how photographs communicate, what they evoke, their ability to stir feelings within a viewer, the possibilities for releasing narrative, etc, rather than being about making photographs that demonstrate aspects of lens properties. I think you are looking for something different in photos, photos that are super sharp, and from my eye might suggest over-sharpening with lots of mid-tone contrast, etc. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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