Nikon Introduces Df Retro DSLR

[donbright]

<p>Question:<br>

How does RGB adjust work with the DF? Is there flexibility with RGB? Like curves in lightroom, can R-G-B be adjusted individually during, and post on board the camera? I'm hoping this is the case. If the question is fragmented, I'll follow up.</p>

[dan_brown4]

<p>In AUTO ISO Mode, the top plate ISO Dial sets the minimum ISO, and AUTO takes it up from there, as needed.</p>

<p>Surely, the exposure compensation works just like the other DSLRs, including shifting the meter reading in Manual shooting mode.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<p>Two long threads about this new Nikon Df - one in anticipation of what it might be and the other a discussion of what it actually is after it was officially released.<br>

Lot's of talk, but at least from looking at amazon's "best selling", "most wished for" etc. lists; this camera doesn't appear to be quite such a hit when it comes to actually purchasing one. </p>

<p>All these discussion still leave me wondering who this camera is actually intended to attract? Sure, there will be those who purchase because it's the latest and newest. Then those who purchase because of the retro look; or because it has dials. Then those who are enthralled by the "D4 sensor" in a less expensive package - no matter what that package looks like. To some the lack of video appeals. Then there's those who are holding back because of the uncertainty with the viewfinder being suitable for manual focusing (something Nikon could emphasize in their marketing if it was indeed the case). Or holding back because the ergonomics requires handling it first. The camera gives lots of reason to be undecided.</p>

<p>The camera certainly has an interesting mix of features aimed to please and attract a variety of (niche?) users but the "sum of all parts" may make a less compelling offer to many. I am sure a D4 sensor in a D700/D800 body would attract a lot more buyers and wouldn't stir nearly as much controversy.</p>

<p>Personally, my attitude and thinking has changed significantly over the last few years, but especially during 2013. None of Nikon's offerings appealed to me (since the D7000 release - a camera I wanted and was ready to purchase but ultimately decided against because of the poor handling characteristics) - and I finally realized that just because a new camera is released and many declare the older ones "obsolete", I actually don't have to buy a new one. Nikon's policy of forcing compromises and trade-offs with each new "upgrade" made it easier for me to realize that my chasing after the newest technology came at too high a price and cost. It made me realize that my current cameras (D300 and D700) are actually "good enough" for what I shoot and more importantly for how I use the images. Sure, I could use a few more MP, or a stop or two in high ISO performance - but it isn't crucial. Thus, now I can sit back and relax - and continue to wait for the D400 - a camera that may never be released in the form that some of us anticipate and hope for. And if it doesn't - well, then it doesn't. </p>

<p>OK, what about the Df? Yes, what about it! I hope Nikon can sell their entire production run to whomever the camera appeals to. It doesn't appeal to me - certainly not at the current price point - and while I have gotten used to the looks (except for the pedestal the DOF preview and Function button are on) I have no interest to reminisce about the "good old days" by going back to the way things were done yesterday. And if I really wanted a camera to slow me down and to use with old manual focus lenses - then I guess I would have to take the Sony A7/A7R into consideration as well - with the most important consideration being OVF vs EVF. In addition to the fact that the Sony would allow me to use a lot more than just Nikon glass.</p>

<p>Ultimately, I think having patiently waited for long periods of time for Nikon to release certain lenses, for example the 70-200/4 and 80-400 AF-S - when they finally made an appearance I can't help but feel that it was "too late". It seems I am in the demographic of Nikon users that Nikon pays the least amount of attention to - and I have the inkling that it finally caught up with me and may even put me on a path that ultimately may even lead away from Nikon. The one question though is - thereto? Certainly not Canon. And all other competitors - like Pentax, Olympus, Sony - are on fairly shaky financial grounds at this point in time. So for the time being, I do what being a Nikon user for more than 30 years has taught me plenty - I patiently (and sometimes less patiently) wait and make do with what I have.</p>

[dan_south]

<p>Is the front wheel assignable? Could you assign shutter speed or ISO or aperture to it, for instance if you don't like the location of the dedicated dials? Or if you don't like the locking mechanisms.</p>

<p>It looks like a lovely little camera for handheld shooting and lightweight travel. Lovely. It's not something that I need, but if I were a dedicated street shooter, I would consider using a Df.</p>

[donbright]

<p>I've talked a lot about it, but haven't bought one yet because they haven't released the DF yet until the end of the month, but very much possible the Df will be my first DSLR, and I may add, not bad for a first. I own 8 Nikkor lenses, and truthfully had it not been for that fact, I would have had a 5D a long time ago.</p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>Same here Don! At this point I am quite sure that the Df would be my first DSLR. I would need to read the manual when it's available, a couple of full reviews, check it out in the stores. Look like just after the new year. </p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>Same here Don! At this point I am quite sure that the Df would be my first DSLR. I would need to read the manual when it's available, a couple of full reviews, check it out in the stores. Look like just after the new year. </p>

[Landrum Kelly]

<p>That front dial sure is unique. At least I don't recall ever having seen anything like it.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

[donbright]

<p>Access to the front dial looks fine, just a different direction to manipulate. My hope, and concern is the feel, the ability to turn it positively, but not with so much drag that it becomes a discouragement to use. There should be clicks, but easily moveable. Sometimes redundancies are overlooked, hopefully Nikon sees this. I wonder had it not been for the D-600s oil issue, if the Df would be received differently by some. </p>

[dan_brown4]

I'm thinking that the orientation of the sub-command dial on the Df will be better than the D800. On the D800, I find I

inadvertently change aperture, and then shoot without noticing the change.

[ilkka_nissila]

With every new camera handling it in person is mandatory before one knows if it fits one's hands and if it works as that specific user requires. So there really is nothing new here. With the D800 it was different as people were madly craving for resolution and only later have admitted may be the focusing wasn't quite up to it.

 

Nikon doesn't tell users in the marketing info that the viewfinder is much better than in the D800 and D4 because they don't want to risk sales of the latter two. So they let the users find out. They didn't tell at any point in the progression of autofocus SLRS that the viewfinder is any worse than the predecessor for manual focus because they wanted to sell autofocus cameras and lenses. However, the degradation or manual focusability of fast primes on the matte surface of the focusing screen did happen and users noticed but had no recourse. Perhaps Sony's EVF cameras give Nikon some food for thought as to how to proceed with the optical viewfinder.

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>That front dial sure is unique. At least I don't recall ever having seen anything like it.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Have a look at the Contax G or the Nikon Coolpix P7100 then. The fact that the vertical front dial design isn't used widely could be taken as an indicator that it isn't all that practical. As Ilkka points out - one needs to handle the camera in order to find out.</p>

[donbright]

<p>Really trying to understand why the vertical dial is a problem. I have a Contax G2, and the access, and comfort of the dial's operation is seamless. Thing is with the G2, its not the location of the dial, its the intermittent response on manual mode because of, IMO, dirty contacts between the body, and lens, thus getting a bad rap, but location? I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a preference. </p>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>So, does this dial work with one finger, like the front and rear dials on a 'normal' two dial DSLR model?</p>

<p>Anyone know yet?</p>

[dan_brown4]

Mike, there are a number of first-hand reports that the dial is easy to use. It's just a different orientation.

[Andrew Garrard]

Dieter: My suspicion is that Nikon can only have so many cameras in production at a time; there was the

desire to do a "dials" camera, a desire to put a D4 sensor in something cheaper, a desire not to steal sales

from the D610, D800 or D4, and an upper limit on a practical price. The result feels like a compromise. A

no-nonsense "dials" camera might sell. A D610 with a D4 sensor PRICED LIKE a D610, or (for more

differentiation) a D800 with a D4 sensor at D800 price, might sell. A D4 sensor in a D600 body with no

flash and a single card slot, priced like a D800? I see how it happened, but it feels like it fell between

stools.

 

I expect the front dial to work with one finger (unlike, possibly, most of the others). I've not used a G, an SP

or a P7100 - though my concern only really comes from the G design: the dial doesn't seem to protrude in

any way, meaning that getting a grip on it when it's cold of when wearing gloves looks like it might be

tricky - unless it's easy enough to move that it could spin when knocked. The P7100 and SP dials actually

stick out, for grip. But it's only something that worries me - I've not heard anyone definitively report that it's

an issue. Don: glad to hear that you had good experience with a G2 with that dial configuration. I've never

had Dan's problem with accidental movement of a D800 dial - I trust that Nikon tune the feel of their dials

very precisely. I somewhat doubt that it will be better than Nikon's conventional arrangement, but it may

not be as much worse as I worry it might be.

 

I've yet to see the menu structure, so I don't know whether the continuous dials are programmable to

override the fixed-function dials. The previews I've read suggest not, but it's hard to tell how much time

people had to play with settings.

 

I'm interested to know whether those considering the Df as their first DSLR got on with the F5 and F100

(I'm not judging, just curious ). I'm amused that KR is predicting that the Df will be Nikon's best camera

since the F6 - yet the F6 handles much more like Nikon's other DSLRs. He was also raving about a

removable digital back, so I assume he's having a bad day.

 

BeBu: I too will be interested to read a manual and see some full reviews of the handling - I have no

concerns about the image quality. Whatever my concerns about the design and positioning, I do hope it

makes new owners happy.

 

Dieter: I switched to Nikon partly out of frustration: every indication was that Canon had several chances

to update the 5D, yet waited until Nikon had competition with a D700 (or possibly just waited, and Nikon

rushed a D700 out when the 5D2 was launched). Had they done the best for their customers by releasing

an update to the best camera they could make rather than maximising profits by extending a production

run, I'd probably still shoot Canon. At one point, I felt the 300D was more crippled relative to the 10D than it

strictly needed to be for cost savings, where Nikon's features in their equivalents seemed more honest.

Now I think there's less in it - Nikon try very hard not to hurt their own sales, and sometimes the customer

hurts instead. Nikon does seem to make slightly odd decisions compared with what customers - at least

those posting here - seem to want. I hope someone knows what they're doing. The big two are certainly

not doing DX shooters any favours with their lens choices. I can imagine it's frustrating, and sympathise.

Maybe Canikon will realise that customer good will is advisable at some point.

[Andrew Garrard]

Dan: Sounds like you've read some hands-on reports that I haven't. I've not heard complaints about the

front dial, but I've not seen a full analysis of it. Could you give some pointers, please?

 

Also, apologies - dpreview do say the front dial is programmable, but also suggest that the EC dial is the

only way to do EC. I'm waiting for the manual!

[bebu_lamar]

<blockquote>

<p>I'm interested to know whether those considering the Df as their first DSLR got on with the F5 and F100 (I'm not judging, just curious )</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Andrew! I am one who considers the the Df as my first DSLR. I own an F5 bought new in 2002. I decided to get back into photography at that point in time because it became affordable for me at that time. So I bought the F5 after seriously think whether I should buy another F3HP which I had since 82 and sold it in 86. The F3 was still available brand new at that time. I picked the F5 out of curiousity because it's quite different from the F3. After a few years using the F5 I bought a used F3HP and found that I use the F3 much more often than the F5. I found the controls on the F5 (which are similar to those of today's typical DSLR) are slow to operate although it does allow for a much wider the range of value (1/8000 to 30 sec vs 1/2000 to 8 sec) and in finer increments (1/3 stop instead of full stop). When I use the F3 I hold the camera with my left hand and the right hand operates the controls. With the F5 I basically hold the camea with my right hand with its big grip and control everything with it too. I found the F5 ergonomically not as friendly as the F3. Being the Fastest camera when it was introduced it's irony that I found that I work much slower with it than the F3. In fact I enjoy using it when I have time and shoot on the tripod. When I am in a hurry it seems the F3 let me work faster. </p>

[bebu_lamar]

<blockquote>

<p>Also, apologies - dpreview do say the front dial is programmable, but also suggest that the EC dial is the only way to do EC. I'm waiting for the manual!</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I think that's true but I am thinking that with Pre AI lenses or AI lenses and you push the AI coupling away you could have EC via the front dial. The camera would work in A mode provided you set the aperture the same on the lens as with the front dial. When you set the aperture value different from the aperture on the lens you're in effect dial in EC. </p>

[Andrew Garrard]

BeBu: Thank you for sharing! My issue with anything but right-handed controls is that I have big lenses -

my left hand is not available to move controls on the camera because it's holding the lens. With a short

lens - as with my Bessa R or a Fuji X series - I'm much more open to controls on the left hand. If you only

ever use short lenses on your SLR, holding the camera left-handed works. I always assumed that Nikon

designers must try the camera with short lenses, since there's still too much control on the left with

DSLRs. However, I think SLRs are at their strongest, compared with rangefinders at least, with longer

lenses.

 

I just wondered how much the menu interfaces were putting people off digital and how many didn't like the

F4/F5 generation interface switch.

 

That's true about the lenses with no electronic aperture (good lateral thinking). Doesn't help me that much

(I have three AI-S lens - well, one plus two stop-down meter tilt shifts; my other manual focus lenses are AI-

P) but it might be a good trick for some.

[donbright]

<p>OK, so while we're at it, here's a look at the front command dial on the G2. This dial is used as a manual focus dial, custom menu adj., and ASA adjust. Note that the operative usable portion of the dial is exposed on top, and shrouded at the bottom. Very convenient, and accessible by the pointer finger.</p><div></div>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>The menu certainly putting me off and it doesn't have anything to do with digital. Just menu, few buttons make me crazy. If I were to design the camera I would put very few functions on the menu although not any more on the dials. I would make a good number of functions can only access via connecting it to a computer. On the computer it's much easier to customize your camera. You would do it only when you're at home. Prepare for the shoot. And then on the field only very few things need to be adjusted. </p>

[Andrew Garrard]

BeBu: like the Eos 1v personal functions? I really do change a lot of settings in the field (and for the ones

you're not expecting to have to change, the help systems on cameras are getting better) - I'm not going to

claim Nikon's menus are all that easy to navigate, but they're manageable when needed. I guess I can see

that a supplementary setting scheme via a computer might not be a bad thing.

 

Don: my concern wasn't that the dial was in an awkward place, just whether the dial - in plane with the

surface it's mounted on - gave a good grip in inclement conditions despite apparently not being rubberised

or sticking out very far. I'm prepared to believe the G2's is fine, and that reassures me about the Df (and

despite my concerns I don't WANT the Df to have problems). I'll look forward to hearing opinions from

those who've tried it. (Weirdly, DPReview's Df poll currently shows 24 people claiming to own a Df and

20who used to have it. I assume I'm not missing something and they haven't actually shipped.) I'll be especially interested in what you two think of yours, since you've been so eloquent in why it appeals to you.

[bebu_lamar]

<p>I think in a DSLR the only reason I would want the LCD is for chimping. Many said you can't trust it (although I can with practice to compensate for the difference) and if so I would rather have non LCD. The LCD is something is easy to get damaged. </p>

[john_neller]

<p>Is this thread the all time record holder on p.net for volume of responses?<br>

I would love to own this camera but not at its current price.</p>