Refurb D600 has 5436 actuations!

[peterd]

<p>That's what I am thinking. If I had that number of actuations this would never have come up. That is quite a disparity.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>As some others have pointed out, when I photograph wildlife or sports, I may capture 5000 frames in 3, 4 days. Therefore, at least to me, whether a refurbished camera has 90, 5000 or 10,000 actuations is next to meaningless. I would expect most refurbished cameras to be used, perhaps with some problems so that they are returned to Nikon. Hopefully Nikon has indeed fixed those issues. Therefore, I would test any refurbished camera or lens out carefully. In fact, I would do that with any new cameras also.</p>

<p>George Simler, I would be interested in knowing whether your refurb D600 has any problems, especially any dust or oil issues, as we discuss on this recent thread: <a href="/nikon-camera-forum/00bv7y">D600 Sensor Spots Appear Again - Any one with same issue</a></p>

[fritz_carlsson1]

<p>My $0.02 worth. A modern car has an estimated lifetime of ca 300 000km barring accidents!). If I managed to buy a used car with 5 436 km on the clock I would consider myself very fortunate</p>

[nico_morris]

<p>I have not had the stamina to read the whole thread, but those contemplating buying a refurb might like to consider a simple question on principle: why would you expect a pristine new camera for the <strong>savings</strong> you intend to make on buying refurbished?<em> If you want new, buy new.</em><br>

Simple.</p>

[Stephen L]

<blockquote>

<p>I have not had the stamina to read the whole thread, but those contemplating buying a refurb might like to consider a simple question on principle: why would you expect a pristine new camera for the <strong>savings</strong> you intend to make on buying refurbished?<em> If you want new, buy new.</em><br /> Simple.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This misses the point entirely. There is a expectation being maintained by manufacturers and retailers that there is a difference between used and refurbished. In reality there seems to be far more grey area with respect to what defines refurbished than I myself would be comfortable with. The perception I get from these types of stories is that you cannot count on "refurbished" meaning anything other "somewhat less used". The idea that a refurbished item, by definition, has been brought back into spec by authorized servicing seems to be false.</p>

[helen_oster]

<blockquote>

<p>The idea that a refurbished item, by definition, has been brought back into spec by authorized servicing seems to be false.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>A refurb will have been by definition, checked over by the manufacturer by hand, inspected very thoroughly, diagnosed, and calibrated by experienced technicians. </p>

<p>As I said, above:</p>

<p>"Refurbs can have simply been pulled from the production line if something appears faulty, or if they haven’t passed the final inspection ]so] it gets flagged as a refurbished model, so you may get a unit straight from the factory that has never been used. <strong>(I have three myself, and for sure they were all factory-fresh!)</strong></p>

<p>A refurb may also be an ex-store demo, possibly used in field tests or sales displays, or it may have been ordered in error and returned to the retailer..."</p>

<p>Complaints like Peter's while not quite as rare as hen's teeth, are pretty close!</p>

<p>As I have explained on this forum, and to Peter by email, he has a full 30 days to return it to us for a full refund, or exchange. If he decides to keep it, then he still has up to 90 days from purchase to send it back to Nikon under warranty. The warranty covers anything the manufacturer's warranty covers for a new unit.</p>

<p> </p>

[Stephen L]

<blockquote>

<p>A refurb may also be an ex-store demo, possibly used in field tests or sales displays, or it may have been ordered in error and returned to the retailer..."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This basically supports my statement:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The idea that a refurbished item, <em><strong>by definition</strong></em>, has been brought back into spec by authorized servicing seems to be false.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Adorama's good intentions and excellent customer service aside, I believe the definition of "refurbished" depends too often on who's doing the defining. I'm not pointing a finger at anyone in particular, but you surely must see how other people's lax definition and poor enforcement of that definition hurts you as well in the long run.<br>

I suppose it's a price that must be paid to have such generous return policies for new purchases. Despite have never returned a piece of photo gear myself, I do find these policies reassuring. It's just that when it comes to refurbished, it appears my expectations are out of line with industry standards.</p>

[helen_oster]

<blockquote>

<p>I suppose it's a price that must be paid to have such generous return policies for new purchases.</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br /> Are you suggesting that Peter's unit was a a customer return to Adorama? If so you are 100% incorrect.<br /> <br /> <strong>All</strong> refurbished units as I have explained above, are refurbished by the manufacturer. They are sent into us in <strong>sealed boxes</strong> which we are not permitted to open.<br /> <br /> We have no idea at all of the history of <strong>any</strong> refurb; eg where or when it was first purchased, (if indeed it was); why it was refurbished or exactly what work was carried out on it for Nikon to define it as a refurbished unit.</p>

<p>BTW, many units are returned that have never been used; they may be 'change of mind' returns; unwanted gifts; 'I-was --just-canned-&-can't-afford-to-keep-it' returns; my-wife-has-said-she-will-leave-me-if-I keep-this' returns; 'I ordered in error' returns.</p>

<p>They may have been opened but unused, but it doesn't mean we can sell them as new; we have to send them off for refurbishing - but it doesn't mean we get the same units back.</p>

[Stephen L]

<blockquote>

<p>Are you suggesting that Peter's unit was a a customer return to Adorama? If so you are 100% incorrect.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>My comments are meant to be general in nature and not specific to Adorama or Peter's camera.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>They may have been opened but unused, but it doesn't mean we can sell them as new; we have to send them off for refurbishing - but it doesn't mean we get the same units back.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>All this means is that what you sell as refurbished is dependent on what other sellers think they can get away with refurbishing. Which is kind of my point.</p>

[helen_oster]

<blockquote>

<p>All this means is that what you sell as refurbished is dependent on what other sellers think they can get away with refurbishing. Which is kind of my point.<br>

</p>

</blockquote>

<p>NO!<br>

<br>

If you buy a manufacturer refurbished unit from a reputable retailer, it depends on the standard set by the manufacturer!</p>

[ArthurRichardson]

To me this thread is developing into Adorama bashing.....

[peterd]

<p>As the original poster I have only great things to say about Adorama. If that is what you are seeing its not from me nor am I in agreement with it. I think its more people hashing about what a refurb definition is etc. Helen has been nothing but stellar in her replies and attitude. Personally I am surprised people keep posting. At this point if I could figure out how I would delete the whole thread... Peter</p>

[ruined for life]

<p>Honestly - even 10,000 isn't much at all. Think of it this way: how long would you expect the body to last? 5 years? 10 years? Even if there were 10,000 exposures on it - if you averaged that in a year, that's 15 years before the camera reaches the Nikon expectations for shutter durability before it needs a servicing... you honestly think anyone will be shooting with a D600 in 15 years? How many people are still posting about the D70? <br>

All the panic about 'high shutter' counts kind of mystifies me. Me? I'd be happy to save a few hundred bucks on a camera that is Nikon refurbished, and has under 10,000 shutter count, as long as it performs well. In my book- that's a good as new. (Heck - even a few mess-arounds with some timelapse shots will easily rack up a few thousand shutter counts... and that's not exactly 'hard usage.' It's just a number. And unless you're using it as a full-time pro (and putting the miles on it accordingly) you're still going to be WAAAAAY off from ever seeing the shutter fail, unless the camera is defective. And if it is - it's going to need to be serviced anyway... c'est la vie! How many cameras have you owned with over 100,000 clicks on them? And of those, how many have you ever had to get the shutter serviced/replaced? Get out. Shoot. Just enjoy!</p>

[ShunCheung]

<blockquote>

<p>To me this thread is developing into Adorama bashing.....</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Authur, I wonder why you got that impression. Not that they are prefect, but Adorama is among the very best mail-order stores; as far as I can tell, that is exactly what this thread shows.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Personally I am surprised people keep posting. At this point if I could figure out how I would delete the whole thread... Peter</p>

</blockquote>

<p>People keep on posting because those people have nothing better to do. :-) And once you post, per photo.net's rules, photo.net has the right to display that forever if they choose to do so.</p>

[ArthurRichardson]

<p>Shun, the reason why I state Adorama bashing is simple. Peter bought a camera that did not meet his expectations. In my opinion he should contact Adorama first and offer them the chance to set things straight for him before posting here.</p>

<p>I have no business with Adorama, it just didn't seem fair to me.</p>

[jack flannery]

<p>I have purchased two refurbished cameras, both from Adorama, I believe, and wouldn't hesitate buying another one. I fail to see the problem.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<blockquote>

<p>Shun, the reason why I state Adorama bashing is simple. Peter bought a camera that did not meet his expectations. In my opinion he should contact Adorama first and offer them the chance to set things straight for him before posting here.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Arthur, well, I never feel that way at all. In the US, it is actually Nikon USA that performs the refurbishing, just like Nikon (Thailand) manufactures the D600. The likes of Adorama, B&H, etc. merely sells whatever they receive from Nikon USA (or, in the case of gray-market items, from someone else).</p>

<p>The fact of the matter is that a lot of (but not all) refurbished items are used items, many with problems that went back to Nikon for repair. It should surprise no one that a refurbished D600 has 5000 actuations or even 10K or 20K actuations. Personally, that is not really an issue. One way or another, if there are any issues, such as the totally non-functioning refurbished 70-300mm AF-S VR my friend received, it is Nikon USA's responsibility, not Adorama or B&H. The problem here is that Peter the OP has a different expectation; he thought "refurbished" is almost new. And he is doing the right thing to return it for a new D600, which is what he really wants.</p>

<p>In these cases, Adorama and B&H are also doing the right things: helping the customer for a refund or exchange.</p>

[peterd]

<blockquote>

<p><a href="/photodb/user?user_id=109486">Arthur Richardson</a><a href="/member-status-icons"><img title="Subscriber" src="/v3graphics/member-status-icons/sub10plus.gif" alt="" /></a>, Sep 03, 2013; 05:07 a.m.</p>

 

<p>Shun, the reason why I state Adorama bashing is simple. Peter bought a camera that did not meet his expectations. In my opinion he should contact Adorama first and offer them the chance to set things straight for him before posting here. I have no business with Adorama, it just didn't seem fair to me.</p>

 

</blockquote>

 

<p>To be fair to me, I simply asked if that was a high number of actuations. I wasnt bashing adorama, i was asking about my camera I received as it was my first refurb. Why dredge this up as an issue now? I already said it wasnt as has Shun.</p>

 

[ArthurRichardson]

<p>Peter you are totally right to ask the question about the actuations. I have no problem with that all. I, however, would have done things differently.</p>

<p>About the bashing: I got the impression by Helen's repeated reply, that the thread was developing in a way I thought was unfair. Posts by other people than you. I should have mentioned that in my previous post and I do not think you are responsible for other people's input on the discussion.</p>

<p>Having re read the discussion I believe that the majority of posts are positive about Adorama, no advertising can replace that. Most important thing is that you got what you expected to get.</p>

<p>Perhaps I am accustomed to the generally speaking poor service you get at the average shop over here in The Netherlands. </p>

<p>I hope that you did not take offense by my "contribution" to the discussion. Now let the camera's speak!</p>

<p> </p>

[rick_kalamaya]

<p> I also bought my camera refurbished from a local dealer. No problems after over three months. And my dealings with Adorama have been top notch.<br>

<br />But one question. I suppose I can look this up but this is quicker. Where do you find the actuations on the camera?</p>

[bart_van_der_borst]

<p>The shutter count is listed in the exif data, a random exif-viewer (to find with google) reveals the info.</p>

[rick_kalamaya]

<p>Well, I downloaded the exif add on for Firefox and have examined a photo taken with my D600. In the data I don't see anything I can interpret as a shutter count. Is there an exif viewer that shows this or is there data on the Firefox add on that is coded somehow?</p>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>Just upload a fresh JPEG here...</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nikonshuttercount.com/">http://www.nikonshuttercount.com/</a></p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Irfanview can read the shutter count from Nikons.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>While some of the info maybe older and out of date, for shutter actuation count, please see this thread from 2008: http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00Nu42</p>

<p>I am sure you can search for newer info also.</p>