Modifiers for Even-lighting of White Background?

[rnelson]

<p>Hi All,</p>

<p>I have a studio space of 22' by 15', using the typical 9' seamless. I have been attempting to light the BG with two 42" white umbrellas with the black factory covers attached on the top of the umbrellas, bouncing the light directly into the umbrellas such that the light bounces back onto the seamless. I'm using typical positioning of about 4' up and at 45 degrees angles to obtain even light. My ceiling height is 8.5'</p>

<p>Problem: With my rather tight space, I find umbrellas kind of cumbersome, and at times they can encroach into my frame, necessitating, repositioning (and of course re-metering) taking the flow out of the shoot. Using silver reflectors is tough with limited space, and I usually encounter hot spots, or (because of limited studio length) I can sometimes struggle with spill onto my subjects (subjects/scenes vary). Flagging the lights can sometimes work ok, but now I'm juggling lighting items a bit too much for my taste, and of course, I've limited space.</p>

<p>Question: I'm thinking about long, rectangular softboxes as a solution. Opinions/advice? </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>Randy -</p>

[rnelson]

<p>Also reading articles on this site. I never thought about this issue 'till now, (although completely obvious), but I have a white ceiling, and of course this is likely not helping my ability to control light. So painting my workspace ceiling black is now on my list.</p>

[ellis_vener_photography]

It is better to light a white sweep from above for even lighting.

[ellis_vener_photography]

I have no idea which brand of light you use but you should see if there and background reflectors (AKA "scoop") for

made for your heads.

[michaelmowery]

<p>Why are you lighting the background with additional lights? Try moving your subjects closer to background and use just your main lights to light both subject and background. In order to keep background white you have to keep the main lights farther away so the Newtons law light fall off takes effect. If you are not going for ratio lighting then this should do the trick. This is the same technique that is done for cover shots.</p>

[rnelson]

<p>Thanks Ellis and Michael. More comments welcome.. :-)</p>

 

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>If the umbrellas get into shot, then you have them set too close to the background. Distance is the key to reducing falloff, as Michael says.</p>

<p>If your BG roll is bang in the middle of your 15' studio width, then you should be able to get your BG lights nearly 3 foot away from the edge of the BG on each side, and about 4' forward before they spill onto the subject. Add some height as well, and you should be able to get a distance of 6 to 8 feet between lights and BG. That should be enough space to use your white brollies, <em>but</em> you'll almost certainly have to flag them off from the subject and camera. I suggest taping some black paper round them on the camera-facing sides.</p>

<p>Strip softboxes should work, but again it's the spill that's going to be a killer. Egg-crates will help with that, but then you may not have enough overall coverage. Again I think that good ol' flagging is the answer, and plain simple black paper and gaffer tape is your best friend - assuming you're not using hot lights of course.</p>

[studio460]

<p>R. Nelson said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>Question: I'm thinking about long, rectangular softboxes as a solution. Opinions/advice?</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Here's two suggested approaches:</p>

<p>1. Use striplight-style softboxes instead of umbrellas [edit: I just realized, that's probably what you meant by "long, rectangular softboxes"].<br /> 2. Build a pair of V-flats. Ideally, take two 4' x 8' sheets of black-on-white Foamcore (black on one side, white on the other), gaff-tape them together vertically so that they can stand up on end (this makes one V-flat; repeat for the second V-flat--you'll need a total of four 4' x 8' sheets of black/white Foamcore). Place one V-flat on either side of your seamless: i.e., place one side of the 'V' parallel to your image plane, and the other side 90-degrees opposed (parallel to your optical axis), placed at their respective ends of the seamless. Bounce a strobe in each.</p>

<p>If you go with striplights, using the V-flats in addition to your striplights will help to contain a bit more more of the reflected light bouncing back from the seamless.</p>

[ellis_vener_photography]

Strip lights are made to illuminate a narrow angle.

I like Ralph's second idea: Making a vee of two flats. You can start with small prices of Fomecore to test the idea.

 

I respect Michael, but whenever I need to shoot something with a white background. Especially if it is a half or full length

portrait, and I have the space, I prefer to light the background separately from the subject.

[bob_bill]

<p>If you want a bg pure white, it needs to be about 1.5 stops brighter than the subject. Even putting the main back 20 feet will eliminate fall off over a few feet, but the bg wont be brighter than the subject so not pure white. I use the 60 degree reflectors that came with the AB's. I have the lights about 5 feet outside the seamless hung from manfrotto clamps to shelving on one side and wall studs on the other. Aim them past center and let the less bright edges overlap in the center to even things out. I attach a 12" piece of foam core to the reflector as flags using a clamp that consists of two clamps and a connector that allows them to be used as barndoor holders. Manfrotto art 375. Or use barndoors. Or you can hang a flag from another stand or with the manfrotto on same stand and a boom arm. Or gaffer a piece of black cinefoil as a flag. You can get a good idea of how even the light is looking at the modeling lights on the bg but check with a meter across the seamless. If no meter. Take shots with the blinkie/highlight warning on until all or part of the bg you need is just blinking. If I am shooting torso or shorter, I roll over one medium octa only that is always set up as far back and to the side as possible to even the fall off, and again feather it past center. This is were the AB cyber commander is priceless. I can start shooting the subject and make quick adjustments from camera of bg if I am getting spill wrapping around the back of subject(try keeping subj at least 5-6 feet from bg), or to take up power of the bg if I take up main and fill based on what I am seeing on my monitor. I can also turn off the bg light completely and since my sbxs and medium and small octa all have egg crates and are set up feathered forward to use the back edge of the light, the white bg goes black and from the camera I can turn on a preset strip kicker and fine tune all from camera. I use a meter to get me in the ball park, but it's not about numbers to me, its what I see on the tethered monitor. Works great when gelling the bg and want to intensify or dilute the bg color by adjusting bg light power. I would consider a 3x4 sbx and egg crate as your first purchase. Will give you light control and softness. I like the photoflex for price and a good sized lip that helps with feathering. Get a folding speed ring and you can fold it and transport the box pretty flat then just snap the speed ring flat and you are set up. Only works with rectangular/square sbsx, only holds 4 sbx rods. With an 8.5" ceiling, I would get a posing stool or apple box and try to get more headroom for your lights that way. My posing stool has become the photographers stool, rolls and height adjustable ends bending over or long days on my feet and keeps the monitor close by.</p>

[michaelmowery]

Bob no one asked about making background pure white like floating is white space from overexposing background.

[bob_bill]

<p>His setup looked like one from Zack Arias and the addition of the v flats is it to a V and since so many novice studio folks want that pure white bg, assumed that's what he wanted. Zack also uses a piece of 4x8 shiny white tile board to ground the subject with a shadow. Anyway, pure white is just taking even lighting up a notch. I would do the same with the 2 lights to evenly light a 9' seamless bg or to gel it. I prefer a gradation to the bg left to right rather than a 90's halo of light around the subject, so like you, in that situation, would use the main to light the bg as well. Using one light like you said,, works great with a 7' octa, my style is more to feather it so not only does it light the subject, but at the same time produces that gradation. I try to place the darker edge of the light on the light side and feather the center of the light on and past the subject. I also like to shoot obliquely to the bg so the light travels a shorter distance to the far side of the subject than the bg further behind on the light side, creating a stronger chiaroscuro effect, the darker part of the gradient is on the lit side and the brighter bg is on the shadow side. If I remember correctly, one of my favorite shots of yours was the lady standing and I believe leaning on a building at camera right. You produced the chiaroscuro in a shot that appears to be taken in the street, by placing the lit portion of her face next to the darker buildings in the background and the roofs ended at about her hair line so her black hair was against the nearly white sky. Very precise chiaroscuro. It makes her pop off the page. I don't think I have seen that done before. I think you warmed her up a bit against the cool bg, also making it recede and her advance. I have that tucked away in my memory bank because it produced such a stunning image. </p>

[rnelson]

<p>Great input everyone, which I appreciate very much. </p>

<p>Michael: I understand your first post, and although I have not experimented with that particular shooting approach I will begin to practice it, which - as you say - indeed is very popular for fashion/magazine work.</p>

<p>I see the point regarding long, rectangular, soft box "strips," although I still would like to obtain one (with a grid) for certain full length shoots. </p>

<p>I generally like lighting the subject and background separately, for this is the method I have learned and continue to build upon. For WBG shots, I typically try to expose about 2 stops brighter than my subject. While I do shoot a WBG about half the time, I believe this technique is beneficial when utilizing other background colors and textures. Also, I have been experimenting with several props in the BG as well, and the ability to control BG lighting in those scenes is very beneficial and is at times necessary. </p>

<p>My most immediate improvements I can implement from this thread are: a.) repositioning of my BG lights, and b.) easy to build/affordable foam-core flags/reflectors. </p>

<p>I should also say that my Original Post points me toward one of my overall photography goals - which is to produce high-quality photos right out of the camera, instead of having to post 'fix' in PS out of necessity.</p>

<p>Thanks again for the great advice.</p>

<p>Randy -</p>

[michaelmowery]

<p>I just have to say that there is a big misconception among the photographers that to light a white background one must overexpose by 2 or more stops. Never overexpose anything as your first step to lighting unless it is necessary. Overexposing is just blowing out any detail and causing light to reflect back to subject. If you light it properly a white background will look white at the same exposure that your camera is set to. Now if the background paper is not a true white then you need to shift the tone by adding more light. This is the same principal when making a white background turn black and black background turn white by adding or subtracting light intensities. Just don't blast light just because someone said so. Take your readings. Overexposing by 1/2 to 3/4 stop is the most i try to do.</p>

[rnelson]

<p>Interesting. I've some more experimenting to do. </p>