dennis_franza Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Please help,<br> I was trying to shoot with a 5D mark III and a 70-200 2.8 II on a studio, with backlight flash, but my results are incredible worst than what I get with a 7D with a 24-70 sigma lens... I tried everything, changed every setting, and I have no idea what the problem is... Could someone give me a light on this? I have been researching for days now, but I could no find a possible problem source...<br> This is the picture taken with 7d (which looks much better than the 5D ones.):</p> <p>http://www.flickr.com/photos/82294900@N05/10994527613/</p> <p>Those are some sample pictures of the best I could do with the 5D... If I increase the exposure the image washes out, and if I reduce it, it becomes dark, losing the punch it has on the 7d one):</p> <p>http://www.flickr.com/photos/82294900@N05/10994317085/<br> http://www.flickr.com/photos/82294900@N05/10994534093/<br> http://www.flickr.com/photos/82294900@N05/10994427796/<br> http://www.flickr.com/photos/82294900@N05/10994498544/</p> <p>Thanks a lot! I have tried everything I can think of, including changing my lens to a 50mm f/1.4, but the results are still very disappointing on the 5d... I don't know what else to try, and would greatly appreciate some ideas...</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Smith Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>It looks to me as though you have different lighting setups. You need more light on their faces and less spilling in from the left in the 5D ones.</p> Robin Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_franza Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Thanks for answering, Robin. <br> The pictures were taken with the exact same setup, on the same day, one after another, changing from 7d to the 5d back and forward on the same day with nothing changing on the setup... I just removed the flash radio transmitter from one body to another, changing absolutely nothing else...<br> 5d results are consistently bad, while 7d are consistently good, after changing between them more than 20 times in the same photo session, changing nothing else but 5D configuration...</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjmeade Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>It looks as though the model in the 5D image is under exposed and the processing has left the lack of contrast. It's difficult to tell, because there's no exif data for the 7D image. But it looks as the the exposure for the 5D isn't the same.<br> What other results have you had with the 5D?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_franza Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Hi Peter,<br> If I expose more the background light blows everything, and this does not happens on the 7D... On Trying both comeras with f/8 and speed set to 125-160 ms give those results...<br> I tried every possible combination of aperture and speed and the results are always bad... It is underexposed on the subject, or blowing out from the background... And I never could get that shiny and pouchy result I get on the 7D<br> This is the first time I tested my 5D on the studio, and I do not have a chance to do that often, but the images with no flash, outside the studio, looks perfect to me... Even on the studio, if I set the ISO up from 100 to 3200 and stop using the studio flash, I could get great pictures...</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie_robertson2 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>I think it's the way your 5D is set up personally. A quick levels adjustment in Photoshop gets the result close to that of your 7D. As Peter says, the 5D shots look slightly underexposed. Also check your white balance setting on the 5D as the images look a little warmer than the 7D images.</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesgysen Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Hi Dennis, welcome to PN. Are you shooting ETTL or manual strobe settings? and with what trigger setup? You may have already looked into this but being the first time you've shot the 5D in the studio, I would have a quick peek at the menu sub-settings to confirm there is no weird ETTL/Flash/sync compensations which have been goofed with. Slim I know but there is a chance!</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpk Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Did you try to take a picture with both bodies and the same lens? May this is a problem of the lens, not a body...<br> It looks like your 70-200 doesn't like this kind of light.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_franza Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Jamie,<br> Thanks a lot! besides the white t-shirt they look pretty similar indeed. Had you changed just global settings? I tried to get to this in Lightroom but I could not... If you did that with no brushes, can you share what you did to get to those?</p> <p>James,<br> I have not looked into that, thank you... I will check it the next time I get the chance to try it in a studio (which may take a while...) I did not know that the camera successfully uses ETTL even when the flash is fired trough radio, but if it does, this might be the source of the problem... I don't know how 7D is set to (since it is not mine).</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruben leal Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Dennis, could you share: - What flashes are you using (at least identify if these are Canon flashes, third party hot-shoe flashes, or studio units)? - What radio trigger system were you using for the tests? - The images are JPGs straight out of the camera, or processed RAW files? - Is there a filter on any of the lenses? This may be a case of TTL issues combined with in-camera JPG processing and even flare magnified by a dirty lens' front element/filter, but can't tell without knowing what was involved in this shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie_robertson2 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 <blockquote> <p>Jamie,<br />Thanks a lot! besides the white t-shirt they look pretty similar indeed. Had you changed just global settings? I tried to get to this in Lightroom but I could not... If you did that with no brushes, can you share what you did to get to those?</p> </blockquote> <p>Dennis,</p> <p>It was just a simple level adjustment, a 2 second job. Press Ctrl+L in PS to bring up the histogram and drag the left slider until it lines up with the start of the black peaks. The fact that there was a flat line on the left of the histogram to start with indicates incorrect exposure. You can also then drag the centre slider to the left slightly to lighten up the whole image if the first adjustment made it too dark.</p> <p>This will be a quick way to correct any images you have already taken. However, you really need to get to the root of the problem. If you've hired or borrowed the 5D then I suspect there will be some settings that need fiddling with.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_franza Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Hi Ruben,<br> I was using studio units only... 4 x 400 W <br> The radio trigger was this one: <br> http://recife.olx.com.br/radio-flash-digi4-proflash-kit-profissional-iid-550184131</p> <p>The image from the 7D (the good one) is a JPEG straight out of the camera. On the 5D some were shoot in JPED, some were RAW processed. In both cases, the results are the same.<br> There are only UV filters on the lenses... Since I changed lenses during the session on the 5D and the results were the same, I think that might not be the problem (the sigma lenses on the 7D also has UV filters).<br> The lenses are new (used only a few times), and by looking at it, I would say that the components and filters are clean...<br> Thank you!</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_franza Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Jamie... I did not borrowed the 5D... It is my camera... I tried to change everything but I could not get even close to the results on the 7D... </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonnalos Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Your background light is too bright, and is not lighting the background evenly. You are getting flare from the lower left, which shows more in the 5D III image because you are seeing more of the picture with the larger field of view from the full frame sensor. You need to reposition the background lights so that they evenly light the background, then turn them down until the background is just barely white, not super overexposed.</p> <p>Your light on your subject is not bright enough. Increase your main light exposure.</p> <p>This is not a camera issue, it's a lighting problem. There might be subtle differences in how Lightroom renders contrast/shadows between cameras, but mainly you're just seeing more of your underlying flare problem with the 5D III because of the wider field of view.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_franza Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Sheldon,</p> <p>Thank you for your explanation. I do not fully understand how a wider field of view (due to a full frame sensor?), would reveal this lighting mistake so much more than on a cropped sensor, but since you mentioned Lightroom on you answer, and I just would like to add that the differences between the cameras were largely visible even when looking on the cameras LCD, before transferring them to the computer, so LR is not a component here...</p> <p>One should be much more carefully with lighting control when using a full frame camera then?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie_robertson2 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Sheldon has made a good point. When using the 5D with the lens set at 70mm you will have to stand closer to the subject than you would with with the 7D at 70mm to get the same framing. Distance to subject affects metering and also, as Sheldon pointed out, the effects of the lighting angle will be different if you are standing in a different position.</p> <p>You don't have to be more cautious when using a full frame camera. The secret is to set the lights up properly to suit the one camera you are going to use, not set them up and expect the results to be the same with all camera and lens combinations.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_franza Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Jamie,<br> The pictures were token from the same point... The 5D lenses were 70-200 and the sigma were 24-70... With the focal length set to something between 40mm and 50mm I was getting the same FoV on the cropped the sensor that I was getting with 70mm on the full frame...<br> I am positive that this was not the issue... I was standing on the same place, with the same Fov when taking the pictures from both cameras, having very different results...</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcstep Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Can't see the EXIF for the 7D, but you should use the same settings if the light is unchanged. Go to manual mode so that your 5D3's meter doesn't override.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathansanborn Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>I would think that what looks as though it would change to cause this would be the models distance to the background. You say nothing changed in the set up, and I believe you. If the model were to take a step or two back, depending on how much space we're dealing with, it can have a huge effect. The main light would end up darker, and this would be very noticeable if the subject were close to the light to begin with. Also if the subject is not very far away from the background to begin with, moving closer to the background would cause the light to flare much more. Is it possible that the model moved on you?</p> <p>To fix it, I wouldn't do too much to the camera yet, I would move the model farther away from the background to reduce flare. If this is not possible due to space restrictions, then I would change the lights.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_franza Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Hi, David.<br> Both cameras were in manual mode... f/8.0 and 125ms were giving very difference results for each camera...</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_franza Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 My friend (the 7D owner) just told me the 7D is also set to ETTl so i think this is also not the cause... When taking the pictures, besides matching apperture and speed across the cameras, I also made sure the picture settings were the same (basically everything under the red canera icon on the cameras menu... The 7d was set with a bit more contrast and sharpness than the standard, but replicating it on my 5d did not brought any relevant improvements (when comparing to the 7d). I really can't think of anything else :( The weird think is that without flash, everything looks so good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_k. Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Dennis,<br> Are you using lens hoods or any filters on both lenses? Shots from 70-200 look like they have flare from your back/side lights. Together with slight underexposure, it causes low contrast on your subject.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_franza Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>Hi, Thomas. Thank you for answering.<br> Yes, I was using the original lens hood from canon on the 70-200... After numerous shots I even tried without it just to make sure it was not causing the problem (which obviously was not).<br> On the other hand, the 7d with the sigma lenses had no hood, and the photos were perfect on it...</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_k. Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>OK, I think the issue is with lights, but just as a test try switching lenses between two bodies and see what results you will get.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_franza Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 <p>I will try that next time on a studio (which might take some time to happen)... But if the issue is with the lights, why would it happen only on my camera, on the same moment with the same setup?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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