The Upgrader's Dilemma

[anirbanbanerjee]

<p>So finally Ricoh is taking the DSLR market in India seriously (although they are much behind Sony, Olympus even Fuji) and they have lost all the enthusiast market to the Big-2.<br>

They have an updated website with the catalogue online.<br>

<a href="https://ricoh.co.in/products/brochures/Camera-range-brochure-FOR-VIEWING.pdf">https://ricoh.co.in/products/brochures/Camera-range-brochure-FOR-VIEWING.pdf</a></p>

<p>That was the good news. For the rare breed of Indian Pentaxians, that is great news.</p>

<p>The bad news is the price. The street price I can get for the K-5 IIs is USD 1400 (with 3 year warranty). Compare this to the USD 879 price on Amazon.com for my American friends!</p>

<p>This brings me to the upgrader's dilemma.</p>

<p><strong>1. What am I getting in the K-5 IIs over the K-50?</strong> Top LCD is important for me, but I can live without it if I have to. <strong>Fast AF, fast start-up time and low shutter lags are most important to me.</strong></p>

<p>I can have the K-50 for the equivalent of about USD 725. Image-wise, I have read the higher bit-depth of the K-5 IIs, but does that make a difference in real-life pictures<br>

<strong> </strong><br>

<strong>2. Heresy!</strong> I can get the <strong>Canon 7D</strong> or Nikon<strong> D7100 for</strong> about the same price as the K5 IIs. Is this destiny beckoning me to switch over? :-) Here in India, used Canon/Nikon mount lenses are readily available (unlike Pentax-mount ones).</p>

<p><br />Or maybe I should get a <strong>Sony NEX-7</strong> -- it suits my kind of photography -- and Sony has massive sales and support.</p>

<p> Of course, I have to sell off KAF lenses. That is the hard choice as I use them a lot on my Pentax MZ-S and PZ1-p film cameras.</p>

<p><strong>3.</strong> Wait until<strong> K-3</strong> is released here. That might (or might not) bring down prices on the whole range a little.</p>

<p> Any inputs and insights would be welcome. I was just thinking aloud to myself here. Thanks for listening!</p>

<p>-Anirban</p>

 

[stemked]

<p>Anirban,<br>

I'll let others speak to the K50 verse the K5iis. As a nature photographer mostly I adore the K5iis. If I was mostly shooting man-made subjects where the artifacts start to show up because of the lack of an AA filter, I would wait on the K3 or go with the K5ii.<br>

Regarding 'the switch' to Canon or Nikon. There is an emotional side and a practical side. As a life-long Pentax user starting with screw mount lenses with many lenses it would be foolish for me to switch. I am an 'Advanced Amateur' I DO NOT make a living using my camera although I do use it for scientific photography. For ME looking at Canon or Nikon the thought of getting razor sharp flying birds is attractive, but not enough to make me switch, so I keep improving my technique and will likely stick to Pentax because I have so many lenses to choose from. If I were a portrait shooter or someone who is happy with the lens choice I can afford then Pentax is a fantastic place to stay. The ergonomics of the camera bodies and available lens section, provided it meets your needs (not necessarily your desires) is the best reason to buy a camera system.<br>

If I lived in a country where the local environment prevented me from reasonably allowing me to do what I wanted photographically, I would probably switch. A camera is a tool, IMHO and is not a sex object. If I were a professional photographer and needed access to lenses I did not have then C or N would be the way to go. My wife went to a Canon 7D (her last SLR was a Pentax ZX-5n). She says she loves it, but honestly her iphone gets more use than her new dSLR. It is really too big for her, and to be honest, she bought the 7D because it is a more pompous and fits her corporate persona than a Pentax body. So go figure.<br>

If you can, I'd try each camera, get a spreadsheet up of what you would need, the cost of the lenses and camera bodies and be as honest with yourself as you can. My 2 cents anyway.</p>

<p>Doug</p>

[hinman]

<p>Anirban, I will try to come back with a more thorough inputs. For the moment, I will think a good condition K-5 is a good camera to consider. With the K-3 coming, many are dumbing the good K-5 for good price near $550 and price of course varies with conditions. I will assume the used K-5 will go only lower as K-3 are in market. <br /><br /><br /> I only had <a href="http://www.techtheman.com/search/label/pentax%20k-5">my K-5 for less than a year</a> and I can attest it to be quite outstanding if you want to keep your Pentax investment in lenses. Forget about the K-5 IIs as it is just way too expensive to buy new in India. And I don't think a new K-50 can outrun the K-5 in terms of image quality. Please check <a href="http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/890%7C0/(brand)/Pentax/(appareil2)/676%7C0/(brand2)/Pentax">dxomark comparison between K-5 and K-50</a> but I am sure that I miss some important enhancements in AF, video, live view and perhaps others. <br /><br /> <br />And if you are nutty like Hin, you have great company in joining either the Olympus, Fuji and Sony camps with a small camera to compliment the bigger dSLR. That some day will come very close when my smaller camera in my NEX can outdo what my aps-c camera can do. And with the introduction of Lens Turbo and Speedbooster, one will go nuts with many alternatives in lens of choices with the FF field of view. Please do check out <a href="http://www.techtheman.com/">my learning blog for Lens Turbo</a> usage with Super-Takumar (SMC) series of lenses. The NEX 7 is a great camera and so is the recent NEX 6. I recently get a small <strong>Lowepro Event Messenger 100 bag</strong> and it is so tiny that taking out all the dividers can't fit my K-5 alone. But the little bag can house my NEX 5N with 3-4 lenses. If I squeeze in my little Pentax Auto 110 type of lenses, I can cheat on 8+ lens on that little bag</p>

<p><a title="Lowepro Event Messenger 100 by hin_man, on Flickr" href=" src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7345/9854636896_23b6d9181e_b.jpg" alt="Lowepro Event Messenger 100" width="819" height="1024" /></a><br /> Lowepro Event Messenger 100<br /> <br /> <a title="IMGP6590 by hin_man, on Flickr" href=" src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2830/9485336085_74f35bfb54_c.jpg" alt="IMGP6590" width="800" height="530" /></a><br /> NEX 5N with Pentax Auto 110 24mm f/2.8<br /><br /><br /> <a title="IMGP6599 by hin_man, on Flickr" href=" src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7359/9534463430_8c71304e5f_c.jpg" alt="IMGP6599" width="530" height="800" /></a><br /> NEX 5N with Zhongyi Lens Turbo and Super-Takumar 35mm f/3.5<br /><br /><br /><br /> <a title="IMGP6583 by hin_man, on Flickr" href=" src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7426/9481890048_d8961ff3f2_c.jpg" alt="IMGP6583" width="800" height="530" /></a><br /> Sigma 30mm f/2.8</p>

<p><a title="IMGP6569 by hin_man, on Flickr" href=" src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5466/9481954902_4ebc44699a_c.jpg" alt="IMGP6569" width="800" height="530" /></a><br /> A twisted setup with Konica AR to NEX, m42 to AR adapter, Industar 50-2 50mm f/3.5 pancake, leica style vented lens hood</p>

[Jochen_S]

<p>Sorry, Anirban, I am not yet informed about the current crop of Pentax DSLRs to be of significant assistance.<br>

Within your text I see the following contradiction: a) "<strong>Fast AF, fast start-up time and low shutter lags are most important to me.</strong>" vs. b) "Or maybe I should get a <strong>Sony NEX-7</strong> -- it suits my kind of photography" - I am no NEX expert but I guess adapting any odd lens on it Hin Man style is barely fast and nukes you back into the 1940s handling wise: focusing wide open, stoping down manually for the capture while toggling between enlarged focussing aid and full frame view. OK it will Keep you busy but is it really faster than waiting for Pentax' most outdated AF to lock on something?<br>

I'm challenged to sort out your needs. You mention your KAF film bodies + using those a lot? - You seem to own a K100D right now? <- was hard to read in your self portrait.<br>

Will your new fancy camera end your personal film era or do you need film for something? - Are you confident your KAF lenses will work well on a new high resolution camera? - I mean screwdriver AF has ist technical limitations that no sensor / software improvement will ever change and even on a 6MP sensor some lenses appear sharper than others...<br>

If you can afford to wait and see: Do that! Over here the K30 with kit zoom is at 76% of old price on sale out right now for example. - I have no clue what happens to old Pentaxes when new models are introduced. - Here I kept my *ist D since I can carry 3 bodies at once and give it some use on asignments where I can get away with it's image quality.</p>

[anirbanbanerjee]

<p>Hi guys, thanks for your responses.</p>

<p><strong>Doug</strong>: I have no emotional attachment to any brand -- whatever works and sells for the right price is right for me.<br>

Pentax has proved to be a very good value for money for me and decent features, so I definitely would like to stay with Pentax.</p>

<p><strong>Hin</strong>: I have checked out DXO stats for both these cameras, and K-50 looks very competent to me. I have tried the NEX-7 with the Sigma 30mm lens. AF is quite fast, but I missed an optical viewfinder. Unfortunately, there's virtually no used Pentax gear market in India, so no chance of buying a used camera (or even selling my lenses to move to another brand).</p>

<p><strong>Jochen</strong>: I have these 'full frame' lenses: Tamron 28-75/2.8 (my most used lens), Tamron 90 SP Di macro, Tokina 20-35/3.5-4.5 (my 2nd most used lens -- this lens was a pleasant surprise considering how little it cost) and the Tokina 80-200/2.8 (I'd use this more often if it were lighter).<br>

I have a few 12x16 and 16x24 prints from 35mm film with these lenses, so they should be able to handle 16MP.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

[hinman]

<p>Anirban, your dilemma can turn out to be an eye opener for non-Pentax gear. Sometime we can be boxed in with what we currently use. I think the K-50/K-30 are a wonderful choice to go if keeping your Pentax lenses along with your film gear is important to you. Getting a used gear on eBay or some place in PentaxForums.com, I try to look for <a href="http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/search.php?searchid=8976665&cx=partner-pub-8894193256862854:2951095274&cof=FORID:10&ie=UTF-8&q=for+sale+k5">used K-5 in PF marketplace</a> for you with this link but I don't know if you have access to <a href="http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographic-equipment-sale/">PF marketplace</a>. For example, someone selling the <a href="http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographic-equipment-sale/238784-sale-pentax-k-5-dslr.html">K-5 for $350 Gbp</a> but you need to factor in the import tax to India if that is applicable. (update: last when I check the British seller only sells for UK). The most important to check is the seller feedbacks in the past and his description. Private message with seller will clear your questions before the purchase. Paypal is the preferred method to protect buyer.</p>

<p>I am biased towards the K-5 or the K-5IIs as I get used to having a top LCD and the two dials always a plus for me. The K30/K50 may give you a better weight and cost effective and a new body with user warranty. Patrick S has shown great photos with the K50. <br /> <br />As for the NEX 7, it will work well in street shooting style and it has great offerings in native E mount lenses with 35mm f/1.8 and 24mm f/1.8 though the Zeiss glass in 24mm is too expensive for my use to consider. Cheaper but great lens to consider include the Sigma 19mm, 30mm and 60mm all in f/2.8. And lots more native E mount to consider for the 10-18, 16-70mm, 55-200mm.</p>

<p>I actually prefer the EVF in Sony as the wealth of information overlay, horizontal assisance line, histogram are a few of nice touches that make up the lost in comparing to optical viewfinder. And having used my lcd pop out screen, my nex 5n work seamlessly like a hybrid TLR with a digital soul. <br /><br /> <a href="http://www.techtheman.com/2012/02/sony-nex-5n.html"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7157/6746391101_623cd42292.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="332" /></a><br /> picture links to my blog post on <a href="http://www.techtheman.com/2012/02/sony-nex-5n.html">sony nex 5n</a></p>

<p>And Olympus has the great offering in EM1 and EM5 but they tend to be more expensive when compared to the offerings in Sony. And I like aps-c sensor performance in nex though the lacking of slower AF in nex. The Sony is no slouch in AF performance but it is indeed slower than those in Olympus but when compared to my K-5 and K-7, they seem to be equal and in some cases, my nex beats my K-5 in AF-C with multiple points auto focus</p>

<p><a title="The Dancing Couple by hin_man, on Flickr" href=" src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5454/9765793675_df43ec5e87_b.jpg" alt="The Dancing Couple" width="1024" height="697" /></a></p>

<p><a title="Down I Go by hin_man, on Flickr" href=" src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7370/9765604532_2f38e9be52_b.jpg" alt="Down I Go" width="1024" height="791" /></a></p>

<p>Both are shot with sony nex 5n and sigma 30mm /2.8. If I reshoot the jelly fish shots with my K-5, I don't think I would be at ease with AF in dim light setting and moving objects.</p>

[hinman]

<p>Anirban, I hope you don't mind me giving more inputs that I should. I love your work and I have been a big fan of your b&w street photos and hence your dilemma become my interest. I also own the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8, and I once owned the Tamron 90mm and I wish I have not sold it for my Lester A Dine obsession that lead to the purchase of <a href="http://www.techtheman.com/2009/11/lba-repurchase-vivitar-100mm-f28-11.html">Vivitar(Kiron) 100mm f/2.8</a>.<br /> <br /> I also owned a similar lens in <a href="http://www.techtheman.com/2008/03/tokina-19-35-f35-45-test-shots.html">Tokina 19-35mm f/3.5-4.5</a> and <a href="http://www.techtheman.com/2009/07/tokina-at-x-sd-80-200mm-f28-test-shots.html">Tokina AT-X 80-200mm f/2.8</a>. All of your Pentax investment are value lens with great quality. Out of your lens collection, I particularly like the Tamron 90mm and Tamron normal zoom. I think you can really benefit in making a small change instead of a bigger change. Going the route K-50/K-30 will make logical sense especially when your MZ-S and film give you joy. I wish you can consider the K-5/K-5IIs new and used market as K-5 will give you the extra semi-professional touch to the camera with top LCD, two dials, available sealed battery grip when you need it.</p>

<p>Please take a look at this <a href="http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographic-equipment-sale/240362-sale-k5-da-60-250-sigma-18-50-fa-50-1-4-reduced-prices.html">sale thread with a K-5 for $450</a>.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>K5 - purchased new Feb2012, shutter count > 9966. In like-new condition. $450 This includes 2 batteries and CS-205 cable switch.<br /><br /></p>

</blockquote>

<p>I wish you live next door to me and I will help you buy the camera in a heartbeat. When I think of street photography in pentax forum, you and Javier come to mind. I wish we can help you better than the limited inputs that we can offer you. Be strong with your dilemma as you have done all these wonderful years of photography with K100D. I salute to you for your outstanding work with K100D and I can't imagine what your pictures will look with the camera you choose next.</p>

[michael_elenko]

<p>Anirban, your concerns are reasonable about the choices you face. I would suggest prioritizing your requirements: how important is price, how important is not having to deal with selling existing lenses or learning new camera systems; how important is image quality for the types of photography you practice; how important is ready lens choices?<br>

<br>

All are good choices. I have enjoyed my Canon 7D, but my primary purpose is shooting sports and birds with that tool. The image quality is OK, but it is aging quickly and Canon is a little slow on the upgrade path. I have ordered a K-3 with the blind faith that the AF and frame rate will be in the 7D class. For my needs the long lens choices for Pentax are mediocre, but I am hoping that things will improve within a year that way and I have secured the best existing option for my needs.<br>

<br>

But that's me. If your existing K-mount glass is unsatisfactory, then move on to another platform. But if they do meet your needs today, then I would hold out for the K-3, even if it involves waiting some for the cash flow to work. Life's too short to not use better tools and you won't notice the cost difference over the four years of use.<br>

<br>

Both Nikon and Canon make very good DSLRs; I'm sure the Sony is fine too. Just think through the lens choices you will then be signing on to--not just availability but in size and weight and cost. One thing that always bugs me about my Canon world is the large and heavy lenses that are hard not to use. I've been able to replicate some of the Pentax benefits by digging up Tokina equivalents to several K-mount DA and DA* and Ltd. lenses, but that may be tougher to achieve in your country.<br>

<br>

ME<br>

<br>

</p>

[anirbanbanerjee]

<p>Thanks, everyone!</p>

<p>At this point I am leaning towards the K-50 (I had a hard look at my KAF lenses that I had to sell off to get into a new mount -- and <em>that</em> made the decision).</p>

<p>However, if I were starting afresh, I would get the Nikon D7100 in a heartbeat. It beats the Pentax K-5 IIs in almost all departments (except, notably, in the in-body shake reduction and Mg-alloy body) and costs USD 150 less (I checked the street price for the Nikon on Amazon India).</p>

<p>I am sorry to say that Ricoh India has got its pricing strategy quite wrong. This is not the way to lure enthusiasts into the Pentax fold, especially since they are trying to establish the brand.</p>

<p>-Anirban</p>

 

[hinman]

<p>Anirban, I am glad to hear about your interim decision. It is the most logical one and I am happy for you.<br>

<br />It is true that reselling your existing gear is a big concern. If you look into my closet, my trouble will be at least X times of yous (I have to hide that number for sanity). I still stay semi-loyal to Pentax though all the ridicules that one can make about the Pentax brand and the slow development and outrageous pricing in recent years. If I start all over again, the Nikon D7100 won't be top on the list to consider, I was curious with D7000 and I played with my friend's new D7000 at the time for two outings and I am extremely impressed with the AF but that is about it and I did not warm up to the camera. If I start from scratch today, my choice with the current available offerings will be a Sony A7, Sony NEX 6, and Olympus EM-1 and I will not consider any cameras with a mirror unless there is a breakthrough on dSLR that can trim its body back to the size of an LX. In my hobby I don't have a need for FF sensor, aps-c is great and fine by me but I will always treasure a body that is small, compact and with good ergonomic.</p>