Frustrated- Advise Please

[shannon_rowe]

<p>Hello,<br>

I've been into photography for a long time (20+years). Recently I've been asked to do portratis for friends etc. I have a full time job, which I enjoy, make great money and have no intention on transitioning to a full time photographer.<br>

I was contacted by a friend a few weeks ago asking if I could come over and spend an hour or so shooting her family. She had her extended family in town from out of state and they don't all get together often. I was available and agreed to do it. There were 17 people total (the most I've ever shot, with the exception of my own family). 8 adults and 9 children (20 months to 14 yrs). I only charged her $100 for the hour I was there and post processing. I thought it went well and gave her a few sneak peeks...she was really happy and excited to see them all. I think I shot almost 500 images.<br>

Anyway, I told her it would take me 2 to 3 weeks to get them back to her. I kept her updated each week on my progress. In fact, around 2 1/2 weeks I told her I wasn't quite finished, just a little longer. She responded no problem everything looks great so far etc. It ended up taking me 4 weeks. My full time job had some issues surface which required me to spend almost 60 hours there a couple of weeks, pulling an all nighter on a few occasions. I also have 2 kids under 3....She is well aware that I work full time and even when we agreed on the amount I iterated that I was not a professional photographer and didn't intend to charge her as such. <br>

So, the last 3 messages to her (this last week) have gone unreturned. I uploaded her images to my site yesterday and sent her the link. Still no response. I know she got it and has been on the site looking, I can see her activity and I see the confirmation that she got my message.<br>

I feel bad that it took me longer than I thought. However, there were 17 people and a lot of shots. I delivered approx 70. That's a LOT of work!<br>

My question is, do you think I should offer her a discount on her print order? I haven't enabled the shopping cart on her gallery yet. I'm adjusting the prices...Am I just being insecure?<br>

If your interested you can see the gallery <a href="http://spittingimages.zenfolio.com/morris">http://spittingimages.zenfolio.com/morris</a><br>

I just got my site up, so it's bare...also keep in mind that hse wanted candid shots, so some are not "wall" quality in the gallery.</p>

 

[john_h.1]

<p>Its good that you want to be fair to freinds but, I wouldn't sweat it at all. Yeah, you went over the time you said but given that there is no deadline event where the images were needed and the all the effort and toil you gave, its not a big deal in this particular instance. If there were to be some complaint, exolain how much work and how long it took and translate that in to how much an hour you effectively worked for them and that it turned out to take longer than expected. Good freinds will be apprciative.<br>

<br />You should be more worried about why you are willing to do all this work for tablescraps. If you think larger rints are really wanted, you hopefully will have only sent tiny files over. If you try to sell images to make up for all that time, be ready for questions/complsints about why your prints aren't as cheap as the box stores, ect... <br /><br /><br>

The other concern is posting your name here discussing this. It will a be a bit awkward for anyone involved to see it. The good part is there is nothing negative and its easy to apprciate what you have done.</p>

[devon_mccarroll]

Since you just uploaded them and there are a lot, I'm sure she'll need some time to decide what she wants, and what other family

members might want as well, since there were a lot of people there. Give her some time to do that, just as she gave you time to process

them, and she'll most likely get back to you when she's ready.

[starshooter]

<p>I agree with Devon. Methinks the photos are great. I hate to say this but -- based on being a pro photog since Eisenhower was in the White House -- you have to develop a thick hide. Like in most areas of endeavor. I sold real estate for a while and it was not uncommon for me to get a couple a great bargain on a house and find out they were mad about something or other. I once shot a wedding, sent proof sheets to the bride and never heard from anyone about it again. I had the feeling that the bride was a bit ticked off during the ceremony so I assume the marriage went belly up right away and no one wanted a single photo from the event. But it has only been 50 years so maybe I'll hear from them yet.</p>

[hjoseph7]

<p>I hate to say it but i think that 4 weeks is an extemely long time to hand in 1 hour's worth of pictures. People just don't want to wait that long unless it's a wedding or something even then they might complain. I would have taken a day off from work maybe two and did my best to pick out the top 100 pictures out of the 500.</p>

<p>Then send those out in about a weeks time. That at least would have kept them interested. You got to remember that "ordinary" people don't have the slightest idea what we photographers do. All the work we put in. They figure Digital is just like Polaroid. All you have to do is point, shoot and hit the print button.</p>

<p>If you would have explained to her first hand that the pictures might take 3 weeks or longer then there would not have been an issue, but now she is dissapointed because you are late. Of course it's not your fault, but she is the one that has to explain to all those people why the pictures are late.</p>

[daverhaas]

<p>4 weeks for a family shoot is a long time, but then again 500 images are a lot to go through - especially since this is a part time thing for you. </p>

<p>I'm in a similar situation - photography is not my prime income source, but I don't have young children either. (I have older ones who sometimes require more attention) </p>

<p>The key is communication - to the point of over communicating. In 6 plus years of doing this - I've had 1 complaint about the time it took to get images and that was from a wedding. In that instance, no amount of communication was going to satisfy the groom. </p>

<p>I'd be patient, don't sweat it. If she has something to say, she'll say it. </p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

[shannon_rowe]

<p>Thank you all for the feedback. I appreciate you all taking the time to respond.<br>

She is well aware of my work situation and I did keep communication open. Everything seemed fine until the latter half of this week, when the photos were ready and I get no response. She is generally a very kind and easy going. Perhaps she has some things going on which I'm unaware...who knows. We all have "things" right?<br>

Unfortunately, with my work these last few weeks, taking a day or two off wasn't an option. If it were a month earlier, or now, wouldn't be a problem.<br>

I'm probably being impatient. I am super critical of myself and want to make sure she is happy with the results of the time I spent with her family. I needed to get it off my chest, sort of speak.<br>

I'll let you know how it turns out.</p>

<p>~Shannon</p>

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p>I would have taken a day off from work maybe two</p>

</blockquote>

<p>For a hundred bucks? Just handing the friend a wad of money to hire someone else would have been better.<br /> The completion time was overestimated. The client has their pics. A lesson learned. </p>

<blockquote>

<p><br /><br />the last 3 messages to her (this last week) have gone unreturned. Still no response. I know she got it and has been on the site looking, I can see her activity and I see the confirmation that she got my message.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You may be reading in to things too much. The friend may be busy as well. I don't know what kind of messages you left and one wonders if responding to the content might be a task inspiring some procrastination.</p>

[Norma Desmond]

<p><<<<em>You should be more worried about why you are willing to do all this work for tablescraps.</em>>>></p>

<p>Because that's what friends do for friends sometimes. I think it's a nice gesture and wouldn't be worried about it at all.</p>

[jcuknz]

<p>+1 Fred 11.39 <br>

Freinds accept that each other may be pre-occupied and not reply immediately. Though I understand you would have liked an immediate appreciation of your efforts.</p>

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p><em>You should be more worried about why you are willing to do all this work for tablescraps</em><br>

Because that's what friends do for friends sometimes.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That may have been the motivation which is well and good but, given the realization of how much effort is involved, taking on future endeavors of this sort is a bigger concern than unnecessary fretting about this particular instance. Unless one desires to revisit these kind of issues down the road.</p>

[jcuknz]

<p>Another approach is to make sure the photos are 'right' out of the camera and need little PP ... the difference between the volunteer and the paid worker. Also to shoot less ... with digital it may not cost anything to shoot but that ignores PP time.</p>

[William Michael]

<blockquote>

<p>we agreed on the amount I iterated that I was not a professional photographer and didn't intend to charge her as such. . . My question is, do you think I should offer her a discount on her print order?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Am I just being insecure?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>As it occurs to me: Yes.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p><br />So, the last 3 messages to her (this last week) have gone unreturned. I uploaded her images to my site yesterday and sent her the link. Still no response. I know she got it and has been on the site looking, I can see her activity and I see the confirmation that she got my message.<br /><br /></p>

</blockquote>

<p>I have no idea what your ‘messages’ contained – did they require a response? (e.g. ‘Please confirm’).<br>

Were you looking for a response like: “thanks – I’ve been onto your website – I see the photos are in the gallery”.<br>

Or are you waiting for a more a positive feedback style of response? – often that will not be forthcoming – many people don’t understand why it took you so long to cull and edit 500 photos.<br>

<br>

I do usually do NOT respond to messages unless the response will forward the conversation and I usually do not respond until I have something worthwhile to contribute.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Everything seemed fine until the latter half of this week, when the photos were ready and I get no response. She is generally a very kind and easy going. Perhaps she has some things going on which I'm unaware...who knows. We all have "things" right?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>She is your “friend” - correct?<br>

Why do not you TELEPHONE HER and ask HER if there is any problem?<br>

I don’t understand the reasons this discussion - between us - and not HER. <br>

<br>

WW</p>

[William Michael]

<p>Addendum -<br>

CAPS are my emphasis - (i.e. I am neither shouting nor am I emotive)</p>

[shannon_rowe]

<p>I think I only charged her "tablescraps" is because I don't do this full time and don't consider myself a professional photgrapher. I do believe I have skills and constantly receive positive feedback....it's my own insecurities that I need to get over, especially if I agree to accept any form of payment for my services. I totally get this....and this is definitely a leason learned.<br>

This person isn't a close friend. I did inform her, prior to the shoot, that the monies paid were only for shoot time and PP. The prints would be additional. So while she has access to the gallery, I did protect the images to where she cannot save them.<br>

As of today, I still have no response. I will be calling her this weekend to follow up.</p>

[danmarchant]

<p>Just because you don't do photography full time that doesn't mean you shouldn't charge what your time/work is worth. If you are good then charge enough to make it worth your while. You will feel a lot happy knowing that they still picked you when they had to pay a proper price. In addition you will find that people take you and your images more seriously. People don't respect stuff they get cheap.</p>

 

[machts gut]

<p>If she's a friend, why don't you just give her a ring and ask her. All this messaging is quite good for other purposes, but not to solve your problem.</p>

[Karim Ghantous]

<p>You need not have put yourself through that - but you did nothing truly wrong.</p>

<p>Even when I get paid well I do not spend a lot of time with PP and I certainly don't piss-fart around with software filters (it's like baklava with too much syrup). Only what is required and not a second more. I have a life. My opinion is free - two cent discount today. :-)</p>

[hjoseph7]

<p>Maybe she is jealous that your pictures came out so good...</p>

[shannon_rowe]

<p>I just got a message back from her that she's ready to order and excited to get started.<br>

hmmm. I'll chalk it up to she's been busy. Nothing about the images being great, crap, etc.</p>

<p>I have set up pricing for online ordering, but I was not impressed with the print lab. I'd prefer to use another lab and receive the prints, review them and deliver personally. I think I'll go with a standard price sheet where she can privide the image#, size, finish etc.<br>

Maybe I'll throw in a freebee or something of a nice gesture for the additional time I took.<br>

I did another session (for adifferent couple) last weekend and I'm quite impressed with the results (If I may say). In fact, I posted a few sneak peeks and a couple of their friends want my info...we'll see. I don't want to put myself in the same position and not have time to fulfill a commitment. However, the last one will be much faster in PP as I had less people and I did a much better job at getting it right in the camera. I'll have them done this weekend.<br>

Anyway, thanks for everyone's advice and opinions....you all are great!</p>

 

[William Michael]

<p>good.</p>