Extra-large octas, umbrellas, and parabolics:

[studio460]

<p>Following on from my "living-room studio" thread, I'm now choosing my primary key modifier, which will be used mainly for portraits, but hopefully, also for some full-length photography. So, I've been looking at large octas, umbrellas and parabolics. Here are the contenders so far:</p>

<p><strong><em>Extra-large octas, umbrellas, and parabolics:</em></strong></p>

<p>91" Rime Lite-Dynalite Grand Softbox = $516 (requires Dynalite SDL-10, 16-pin speedring)<br /> 86" Paul C. Buff parabolic light-modifier [PLM] = $79<br /> 84" Photoflex OctoDome3/fabric eggcrate = $433/$222</p>

<p>Since it's the largest, I'm leaning toward the Rime Lite softbox, though it requires a Dynalite 16-pin speedring. I'm not sure how I would mount this modifier onto an Einstein E640, or other-brand flash head, however. The Photoflex product, on the other hand, does have a reasonably priced fabric eggcrate available--a huge plus. The Buff PLM has the benefit of a direct-fit to their E640 monolights, with their unique umbrella-mount cage, centering the flash head perfectly within the umbrella.</p>

<p>Links for Rime Lite and Photoflex products:</p>

<p>91" Rime Lite: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/819326-REG/Rime_Lite_GSB_91_Grand_Softbox_91_230.html<br /> 84" Photoflex: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/276535-REG/Photoflex_FV_MOD7_OctoDome3_Softbox_Large.html</p>

[studio460]

<p>Apparently, there's no such 16-hole speedring made to fit the 16-pin Rime Lite unit, other than the SDL-16 made specifically for Dynalite heads only. However, I did find this customer review on the B+H site for the product:</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>"Got this [Dynalite SDL-16 speedring] to use with the Grad Softbox and of course had to modify it a bit to get it to work with my non-dynalite strobes. But it is great and love it."</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Does anyone have a clue as to if the Dynalite speedring would be adaptable to a Paul C. Buff Einstein E640 monolight, either by deleting the Dynalite insert, and replacing it with a Balcar/Alien Bees insert, or other method?</p>

[studio460]

<p>Here's another product description from an Australian site indicating availability of other available speedrings for the Rime Lite Grand:</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>"The Rimelite Grand Softbox is a great fashion accessory used to give you large soft even light, but still giving you that slight contrast seen predominantly in fashion. This softbox is 2.3m across and 1m deep. fittings Bowens, Balcar, Broncolor, Comet, Courtney, Dynalite, Electra, Elinchrom, Hensel, Interfit, JTL, Multiblitz, Novatron, Profoto, Prophet, Photogenic, Photona, Speedtron, Sunstar, Tokina, Norman."</em></p>

</blockquote>

[studio460]

<p>Well, here they are, but I still can't find one for Balcar/Alien Bees/E640:</p>

<p>http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=rime+lite+speedring&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=</p>

[studio460]

<p>Okay, so I buy the Rime Lite Grand, 16-hole speedring that they make for Elinchrom heads. Then, buy a Kacey Enterprises' Elinchrom-to-Alien Bees adapter. Good to go, right?</p>

<p>Rime Lite speedring for Elinchrom: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=rime+lite+speedring&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=<br /> Kacey Enterprises' Elinchrom-to-Alien Bees adapter: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=rime+lite+speedring&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=</p>

[ellis_vener_photography]

Frankly? I think you'll be better off getting at 8ft x 8ft scrim and using anything from a large umbrella or softbox to single

or multiple heads with smaller reflectors behind it. That way you are not locked into a one tool fits all situations solution.

[ellis_vener_photography]

I am also surprised you are not looking at a Chimera SuperPRO 7 ft Octa light bank.

[studio460]

<p>Although I don't have a lot of space, I was actually thinking of somehow rigging a 6' x 6' or 8' x 8' Polysilk in my living room. Ideally, I would run something like a 1,000 Watt-second strobe through two silks: a smaller one first (e.g., a 4' x 4' Polysilk), then the largest one last. In fact, I think I may actually do that someday: a 4' x 4' primary silk with an 8' x 8' secondary silk. But in that case, the strobe would have to be on a stand, much further back.</p>

<p>But, I did also specifically want an umbrella or PLM-type modifier for my rail system key light, since it could be easily removed when not in use, not to mention the fact that the Buff 86" PLM is made to fit the monolight I happen to want, the E640. Plus, the PLM sure is priced right. The 7' Chimera octa, though nice, is a bit more than I was planning to spend.</p>

[studio460]

<p>Of the three options I researched, each has its benefits, listed below. But, I think both the availability and reasonably priced fabric eggcrate for the Photoflex unit is what won me over:</p>

<p>Best lighting control = 84" Photoflex OctoDome3 + fabric eggcrate [+ Photoflex SC-B9005PBR speedring for E640]<br>

Largest source = 91" Rime Lite Grand [- Balcar speedring unavailable from a US retailer]<br>

Best value = 86" Buff PLM [+ includes umbrella-shaft cage for E640]<br>

<br>

So, I think I'll get the 84" Photoflex octa with the fabric eggcrate. And, since the Buff PLM is so affordable, I can get that too!</p>

[fotografz]

<p>Ralph, I hope you realize how huge these choices are? Once you add a 84" box to a stand (or better yet a boom arm), you will need around 10' to ceiling. </p>

<p>You do want to retain the ability to raise the soft-box up, and tilt it forward for directional light. My largest boxes are a Elinchrom 72" octa inverse mount collapsable, and a Plume Wafer 5' X 7" (84") that are very hard to use effectively in smaller studio situations. </p>

<p>Most used small space box is a Profoto RF 5' Octa ... and I'd like to add the Elinchrom Rotalux 59" Deep Octa because it collapses so easily for take-with use.</p>

<p>Large diffusion sheets can work but are not the same as a soft-box with an interior designed to even out the light.</p>

<p>-Marc</p>

 

[studio460]

<p>Ha! Yup, they're huge! I really like the 5' Profoto RFi octa also, and will probably get one for location work. We have a fairly high ceiling . . . hold on, I'm going to measure it.</p>

[studio460]

<p>At its highest point, the ceiling in the living room is 11' 3" in height. I like to put the key just slightly above my subject's eyeline--so, say I have models of lesser stature, and put that at 5' for the moment. Given that, I would need to put the center of the source, let's say, at minimum, two feet higher than that (likely more). That means the largest source I could put at the rear of the living room would be 8' in diameter at most.</p>

<p>Another space-saving idea is to mount a roll-up reflector. This reflector could be as large as a 12' x 12' if set at a slight angle. A more practical solution may be to gang-up three sheets of 4' x 8' Foamcore horizontally, making a 12' x 8' surface. Our interior style is very minimalist as it is, so the space at the moment is fairly uncluttered.</p>

[studio460]

<p>For the moment, I think I may hold off on the Photoflex octa, and order an Einstein E640, and the 86" Buff PLM--start with that, and see how that goes. My main goal was to provide an easy-to-use soft source for quick-and-dirty portraits, hung from a Delta 1 rail attached to a ceiling beam in the living room. This whole thing got started because I broke one of the spokes on my 20-year-old, 60" Photoflex umbrella, and I wanted to replace that, and perhaps go a little larger.</p>

<p>The arty-er stuff, I never like to key straight-on anyway, so large, gridded sources (not necessarily octas) from the side (on baby rollers) will be what I use for that. The Profoto RFi 5' and 3' octas I was planning to buy for location work anyway, so I can also give the 5' RFi a try inside as well.</p>

[studio460]

<p>Speaking of large sources, I was shooting some wall- and ceiling-bounced photos for my "golfbag cart thread" here a few nights ago, and really liked how that looked. I think I may be also plastering sheets of Foamcore on the camera-right living room wall, then hitting that with a 1,000 Watt-second monolight with a shallow 3' x 3' or 4' x 4' softbox mounted.</p>

[studio460]

<p><img src="http://studio460.com/studio460/cart-4.jpg" alt="" width="700" height="464" /><br /> Re-posted from my "golfbag cart thread:" lit with a Speedotron 1,000 Watt-second monolight w/22" beauty dish attached, bounced into a white wall/ceiling, used as a 3/4-backlight.</p>

<p> </p>

[zack_zoll]

<p>If you're in a relatively small space - which I assume you are if it's a living room - these light sources will not work the way that you want them to. You need a much smaller source.</p>

<p>Not just because of the ceiling issue, but because of all the stray light. I use Einsteins, and typically shoot with enormous 5' tall softboxes. On the stand, they're almost 6 feet tall, at the lowest stand height. For starters, it is awful hard to light a subject wearing glasses with those, because even with a sandbag it's perilous trying to raise that up the the right height and drop the angle without breaking anything. I've broken a couple of diffusion domes that way, and a modeling lamp.</p>

<p>Aside from that, I need to either have them very close to the subject, or very far from the wall, in order to avoid getting so much light spill that it all bounces around the studio and gives me a flat light. I have white walls in my studio; if your living room is painted grey or black it won't be an issue, but who paints their living room grey or black? I get so much reflection that I usually don't even bother with a hair light, unless the subject is against a dark background, or I'm going full-on glamour. That's with around a 15'x30' shooting space and ceilings around 18' high. If your living room is smaller than that, it's just going to be harder.</p>

<p>That's also with a softbox, which is a much more directional, controllable light source than an umbrella.</p>

<p>That's all assuming you have white walls. If your walls are painted any colour other than white, off-white, grey, or black, you're going to have issues with colour cast, even if you're not pointing the light at that wall. There are a lot of ways to fix that, like pinning up black cloth on all the walls. But then it's not really a living room anymore.</p>

<p>I would strongly suggest that if you need to use a giant umbrella in a living space, you only use it for fill. Your main light should be something much smaller and much more easily controllable, or else you'll give yourself a LOT of problems. I would recommend either a beauty dish or a 2'x3' softbox, depending on effect what you like better. The beauty dish has more 'pop', but I think that the softbox is better for general use if you're only going to own one.</p>

[studio460]

<p>Zack said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>. . . but who paints their living room grey or black?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Ha! I do! Seriously, all walls and ceilings are painted pure white, except for the entire camera-right wall, which is painted neutral gray (the entire house was painted specifically with shooting in mind). But, thanks for the general advice. I've used my 60" umbrella here before, and I just wanted something bigger.</p>

<p>Mind you, this won't be my only source--I'll be building an inventory of varying sizes and types of sources, including traditional softboxes with fabric eggcrates (as well as beauty dishes, which I already own). Sometimes I'll want the flat fill of an umbrella, and others, I'll want the control of an off-axis, tightly gridded softbox. I'll be trying a variety of different set-ups, using varying sources--sort of my own personal lighting lab.</p>

[studio460]

<p>Sorry, both camera-left, and camera-right walls are painted neutral gray. The ceiling and front/rear walls are painted white. If I start to get too much bounce off the ceiling, I'll just paint that gray as well (our garage interior has been painted completely pure-black--unfortunately, there's too much stuff in there right now to use as a shooting space).</p>

[zack_zoll]

<p>Fair enough. Well then, considering my previous post, I would vote for the Buff PLM. You probably don't NEED the extra output of the PLM for a fill light, but it's a lot easier to move around indoors, and it's far and away the most useful modifier if you ever take it on location and run off a battery. Those larger softboxes pretty much stay in the studio all the time. I have the largest rolling case Kata makes; it's almost large enough that I could get inside of it, and I'm not a short guy. Even with that massive thing, it's impossible to carry a giant softbox AND my light stands in the same case.</p>

<p>So if you're on the fence, my philosophy is always to start with the one that is the cheapest or the most useful in the general sense, and buy the more specialized stuff later. In this case, the PLM is both.</p>

[pete_s.]

<p>Sometimes white is good. You can bounce a strobe of the rear white wall for a huge fill light with as little fall off as possible in that room.</p>

<p>If you want even light distribution you can place or hang from the ceiling a huge diffusing fabric a couple of feet in front of the wall. Place the strobe as if you would bounce into the wall but with the diffusion between. Because the diffusion is between the strobe and the wall you will first diffuse the light then bounce it and then diffuse it again. It will look like an very big softbox.</p>

<p> </p>

[studio460]

<p>Thanks, Zack. I really appreciate everyone's input here, and that's the principle reason I post these monologues here. Yes, I've finally decided (I think) to begin with the cheapest option here for starters--the Buff PLM (although, I'll probably have the most "creative" use out of a gridded octa or rectangular softbox on a rolling stand). The backlight and PLM will be hung from ceiling rails or nail-on plates. Also, all of these modifiers, I plan to leave in this space (I have a completely different set of tools for location work planned).</p>

<p>Certainly, different shots will require different sources--sometimes I'll want a harder shadow, or the super-fast fall-off you may get with a beauty dish. At other times, I'll want the softest light possible. I think it's a fun challenge to explore ideas which can maximize the versatility and utility of this space. Since we're finally nearing the completion of our DIY remodel, I'll soon have the opportunity to think of some fun things to do with the house!</p>

<p>Thanks again for your input!</p>

[studio460]

<p>Pete said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>If you want even light distribution you can place or hang from the ceiling a huge diffusing fabric a couple of feet in front of the wall. Place the strobe as if you would bounce into the wall but with the diffusion between. Because the diffusion is between the strobe and the wall you will first diffuse the light then bounce it and then diffuse it again. It will look like an very big softbox.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes! I've been pondering similar ideas as well. The rear wall is white and fairly large. I mentioned earlier that I was thinking of installing a wide roll of some sort of white diffusion material on the ceiling beam that could roll-up and "disappear" when not in use. I was planning to use it as either a huge reflector, or as a shoot-through silk, but a super-giant softbox is even better. Great idea!</p>

[studio460]

<p>Marc said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Ralph, I hope you realize how huge these choices are? . . . You do want to retain the ability to raise the soft-box up, and tilt it forward for directional light . . . [my] most-used small space box is a Profoto RF 5' Octa . . .</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, you do have a point there, Marc. I do want some shadow/modeling on my portraits, and I probably won't get the lamp height needed to achieve that from of the larger sources mentioned.</p>

<p>And, now that I'm also considering other methods to achieve very large sources (e.g., Pete''s "softbox wall" idea), a 5' octa now looks interesting again (I'll still buy a PLM--hey, it's only $79 bucks!). I was actually considering the Profoto RFi 5' octa for location use, but the softgrid for it is a whopping $450! But, I did I just find a CreativeLight 5' octa softgrid on B+H for half that price. Wonder if it will fit?</p>

[studio460]

<p>Decisions, decisions . . .</p>

<p>Pretty sure that if I buy an octa, I'm also pretty sure, I'll want the softgrid for it as well. Unfortunately, the Profoto 5' softgrid is outrageously priced, but if the CL 5' softgrid works, I may have a winner. However, I can also have a two-foot larger source for just a bit more money. But I was planning to buy the Profoto 5' for location work anyway. Hmmm . . .</p>

<p>Option A: Profoto RFi 5' octa/CL softgrid = $319/$240; total = $559<br>

Option B: Photoflex 7' octa/softgrid = $433/$184; total = $617</p>

[bob_bill]

<p>Ralph, have both the Photoflex 7' octa and the PLM, silver with original umbrella mount. I store the 7' octa open on a stand with a stud/ threaded screw inserted in the extra hole of speed ring. Some have more than 8 holes. I just leave it on the stand with no light attached and roll it against the wall taking up little space. It never travels, it is the most difficult piece of gear to assemble that I have- 30-40 minute ordeal. The 5 foot octa is a piece of cake compared to the 7. The silver plm is really versatile. Opens like an umbrella. If I want hard light, focus the light on the shaft and virtually no spill, its a spot light. Defocus the light and add the diffuser panel and fairly soft light, double diffused including the bounce. It stays in my rolling case with umbrellas. The 7' octa is almost too soft for some applications in tight. But can make it harder by pulling it away or use less box ahead of the subject. Like fast glass bought for a specific purpose, I usually roll it out for super soft shadow transitions so usually have the rear edge of the box even with or slightly ahead of the subject using the feathered rear edge and the full 7 feet of the box to wrap light around the subject. Open to f/1.4 or 2 and soft focus softens the shadow edge transition even further. Have used the plm in moderate wind and the trouble was keeping it from moving left or right at the strobe/stand connection. I put the 18lb battery pack and 2 20 lb sand bags on the stand and it stays upright. As for controlling light in studio, on another rolling stand, I keep a 6.5" square photoflex Black/white panel that can be rolled in just out of camera on the side opposite the main. Also, an instant reflector if I want one. I also have a $10 black sheet from Walmart that I can gaffer/clamp to control bounce on the other side. I dont use an eggcrate with the octas, I tend to feather them off the bg and if necessary flag them off the bg. Which one to get first, plm without a doubt. I cant speak to the white plm with the diffuser panel as an alternative to the octa. Also, might consider the 5' octa after the plm. Its easier to assemble for travel and pull it in tight for head and shoulders or angle it and let it fall off for full length. Saves adding a gradient in post. But for soft, evenly lit shots, the 7 footer. It can light the bg, be a hair light and a front light all at once. If I had plenty of space and was limited to one main, this would be it. Its hard to take a bad picture with one. Its interesting dealing with gear bigger than you are. As for height, attach it to a 20 or 40 inch arm and you can rest it on the floor or slightly above the floor. My rolling stand legs are parallel to the floor and 5.5 inches high but the octa side will fit between them touching the floor should you want it, but I prefer 6-12 inches off the floor for full length. </p>