studio460 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 <p>Excellent information, there, Bob! Thanks for your detailed post!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 <p>Yes, after reviewing everyone's comments (plus, your nicely detailed post, Bob!), and re-reading Marc and Zack's initial posts, I think the 5' octa does make the most sense for the living room. If I want super-soft, I'll have the ultra-affordable PLM to use as well. If I want uber-soft, I think an 8' x 8' silk, as Ellis mentioned earlier, will do nicely, since after some measuring-tape gymnastics a moment ago, it <em>appears</em> that I do have the space to work an 8' x 8' if I really wanted to. Again, I appreciate everyone's comments (keep 'em coming!).</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 <p>Yup, Bob, the 7-footer would be nice for full-length stuff. I guess I can substitute my 54" x 72" rectangular box for full-length shots (but, I don't own a grid for that, and the grid for that box is also ridiculously priced).</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 <p>So here's what I'm thinking now for my primary key and backlight modifiers (each, modifying an Einstein E640 monolight):</p> <p>Primary key: Profoto RFi 5' octa/60-degree CL softgrid = $319/$240; total = $559<br> Backlight: Profoto RFi 1' x 6' strip/50-degree Profoto softgrid = $289/$143; total = $434 </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_bill Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 <p>Ralph, Someone had posted in the portrait section asking if anyone uses fresnels. I do but all my softboxes are for strobes and cant handle the fresnel heat. Thanks Steve Sint for recommending the fire extinguisher that now is on every hot light shoot. So I either flood and adjust the barn doors to fill the scrim or use a large bounce, a 4x4 formcore when I want soft light. Attaching both opposite each other on one rolling stand with a couple of booms makes for an easily aimed and positioned setup. Note, with the scrim, I have control of the distance of the light to the diffusion material that I dont with a softbox. Can do the same with strobe. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_bill Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 <p>Ralph, Someone had posted in the portrait section asking if anyone uses fresnels. I do but all my softboxes are for strobes and cant handle the fresnel heat. Thanks Steve Sint for recommending the fire extinguisher that now is on every hot light shoot. So I either flood and adjust the barn doors to fill the scrim or use a large bounce, a 4x4 formcore when I want soft light. Attaching both opposite each other on one rolling stand with a couple of booms makes for an easily aimed and positioned setup. Note, with the scrim, I have control of the distance of the light to the diffusion material that I dont with a softbox. Can do the same with strobe. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_bill Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 <p>Ralph, Someone had posted in the portrait section asking if anyone uses fresnels. I do but all my softboxes are for strobes and cant handle the fresnel heat. Thanks Steve Sint for recommending the fire extinguisher that now is on every hot light shoot. So I either flood and adjust the barn doors to fill the scrim or use a large bounce, a 4x4 formcore when I want soft light. Attaching both opposite each other on one rolling stand with a couple of booms makes for an easily aimed and positioned setup. Note, with the scrim, I have control of the distance of the light to the diffusion material that I dont with a softbox. Can do the same with strobe. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_bill Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 <p>Ralph, Someone had posted in the portrait section asking if anyone uses fresnels. I do but all my softboxes are for strobes and cant handle the fresnel heat. Thanks Steve Sint for recommending the fire extinguisher that now is on every hot light shoot. So I either flood and adjust the barn doors to fill the scrim or use a large bounce, a 4x4 formcore when I want soft light. Attaching both opposite each other on one rolling stand with a couple of booms makes for an easily aimed and positioned setup. Note, with the scrim, I have control of the distance of the light to the diffusion material that I dont with a softbox. Can do the same with strobe. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_bill Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 <p>Ralph, Someone had posted in the portrait section asking if anyone uses fresnels. I do but all my softboxes are for strobes and cant handle the fresnel heat. Thanks Steve Sint for recommending the fire extinguisher that now is on every hot light shoot. So I either flood and adjust the barn doors to fill the scrim or use a large bounce, a 4x4 formcore when I want soft light. Attaching both opposite each other on one rolling stand with a couple of booms makes for an easily aimed and positioned setup. Note, with the scrim, I have control of the distance of the light to the diffusion material that I dont with a softbox. Can do the same with strobe. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_bill Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 <p>Ralph, Someone had posted in the portrait section asking if anyone uses fresnels. I do but all my softboxes are for strobes and cant handle the fresnel heat. Thanks Steve Sint for recommending the fire extinguisher that now is on every hot light shoot. So I either flood and adjust the barn doors to fill the scrim or use a large bounce, a 4x4 formcore when I want soft light. Attaching both opposite each other on one rolling stand with a couple of booms makes for an easily aimed and positioned setup. Note, with the scrim, I have control of the distance of the light to the diffusion material that I dont with a softbox. Can do the same with strobe. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 <p>Bob . . . you can say that again!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 <p><strong>Bob:</strong></p> <p>I think I know what you're talking about (at first, I was a bit confused), but it bears pointing out the different definitions of the term, "scrim," when used in still photography vs. film/TV lighting:</p> <p>Still Photography:</p> <p>In photographic applications, the term "scrim" is used to refer to a light-diffusing material, such as a Polysilk, diffusion gel, spun-fiber diffusion sheet, or other diffusion material.</p> <p>Film/TV Lighting:</p> <p>In film/TV lighting terms, a "scrim" refers to a circular piece of metal screen material, used to reduce the output of incandescent lights, typically, Fresnels. In this application, scrims do not alter the light quality--they merely reduce output. These are available in single and double "strengths," resulting in half-stop, and full-stop reductions in output, respectively.</p> <p>Half-scrims (resembling a semi-circle) are used to reduce light output for just half of the beam, useful when lighting subjects which approach a light source in a scene. Similarly, these are available in half-single, and half-double.</p> <p>To further add to the confusion, for some reason, the film/TV lighting industry (including major Hollywood rental houses) commonly refer to scrims as sets of "diffusion," which clearly they are not. In film/TV, true, light-diffusing materials are often simply referred to by their specific name: e.g., Polysilk, China silk, 216, 250, Opal, Tough-Spun, etc.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 <p>Bob said:</p> <blockquote> <p>So I either flood and adjust the barn doors to fill the scrim or use a large bounce, a 4x4 formcore when I want soft light.</p> </blockquote> <p>Yes, this is a common film/TV lighting technique. I have to agree--a baby 1K Fresnel, bounced into a 4' x 4' sheet of Foamcore, or shot through a 4' x 4' Polysilk makes for a very pretty source. So, to continue on that technique, applied here, I would mount something like a 4' x 4' softbox onto a strobe, then shoot that through a 6' x 6' or 8' x 8' Polysilk or gridcloth.</p> <p>I happened to be on a musicvideo set yesterday where the DP had a 10K Fresnel shooting through two, consecutive 4' x 4' frames of Lee 216 and 250 diffusion gel, then projected through a 12' x 12' frame of half-gridcloth--talk about soft!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 <p>So, I'm sitting in my living room just a moment ago, trying to figure out how to install some large bounce surfaces that could also collapse out of the way . . . then, bingo! Projector screens! Perhaps, something like this:</p> <p>http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/600019-REG/Da_Lite_33420_33420_Model_B_Manual.html</p> <p>Priced right, at only $79 for a 72" x 72" matte-white screen, it can be quickly set-up, and put away, with very little effort. For a bit more, you can get a 96" x 96" screen for $146.50.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 <p>Ralph, you will want any flat bounce surface type scrim to be flexible in terms of angles and placements so you can "feather" the light at will.</p> <p>-Marc</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 <p>Well, it's finally done! I still have a bit of buyer's remorse for choosing the 5' octa instead of the 7' Photoflex, but at least I'll also be getting the 7' Buff PLM when I get around to ordering my Einstein E640. Just clicked the B+H order button on the following items:</p> <p>Profoto 5' RFi Octa + Profoto RFi-to-Einstein speedring + Creative Light 5' Softgrid<br> Profoto 3' RFi Octa + Profoto RFi-to-Dynalite 2 speedring</p> <p>The Profoto 5' octa will be used for both my home studio and location use. The 3' octa will be for use with my Dynalite Uni400 Jr. monolight/Jackrabbit II/XP1100 inverter system, specifically for location use. </p> <p>Since there's a week or so lead time to getting the new RFi stuff from B+H, I'll order my Paul C. Buff stuff once I receive my RFi gear. I'll probably start with the following:</p> <p>Einstein E640 monolight + PowerMC2 PocketWizard receiver + 86" Soft Silver PLM</p> <p>I'll eventually buy a total of four Einstein E640 monolights for studio-use only. I may also buy a second Photoflex 54" x 72" rectangular softbox, since they're priced so reasonably ($228), to stack side-by-side, for super-soft, full-length shooting in my home studio. However, unfortunately, the Lighttools softgrids for these are prohibitively expensive.</p> <p>Thanks for everyone's advice, and help in making these decisions!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 <p>Marc said:</p> <blockquote> <p>Ralph, you will want any flat bounce surface type scrim to be flexible in terms of angles and placements so you can "feather" the light at will.</p> </blockquote> <p>Oh, absolutely! I will be adding bits of grip equipment here and there as time goes on. I already have a couple of Matthews Foamcore holders, expressly for this purpose. You can easily set a 4' x 4' or 4' x 8' sheet of Foamcore in any position you want with this. Matthews makes two kinds:</p> <p>http://www.msegrip.com/matthews-foamcore-holder.html<br /> http://www.msegrip.com/matthews-cantrellholder.html</p> <p>I chose the first one for its convenient ball-swivel mount. This way, you can reposition the Foamcore without having to adjust the grip head. I would also like to build some sort of nice, gridcloth frame to shoot through (Westcott ScrimJims are too expensive!). Thanks again for all your input!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 <p>Well, the ScrimJim kits are bit less expensive than I remembered. This one is perfect for $399, but it doesn't include the clamps needed to set the rig into a C-stand grip head (which are $50 each):</p> <p>http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/90984-REG/Westcott_1895_Scrim_Jim_Large_Reflector.html</p> <p>But, this kit does include the white bounce panel, plus a 3/4-stop translucent panel.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 <p><em>ADDENDUM:</em></p> <p>I said:</p> <blockquote> <p>Film/TV Lighting:<br /> In film/TV lighting terms, a "scrim" refers to a circular piece of metal screen material, used to reduce the output of incandescent lights, typically, Fresnels.</p> </blockquote> <p>I forgot . . . just to add to the confusion, grip manufacturers also call open-ended silks and nets, "scrims." But no one calls them that on set, except to say, "Hey, bring that scrim box over here!" These "scrims" are always referred to by their specific names instead, e.g., "Bring me a 2 x 3 double [net] . . . bring me an 18 x 24 silk, etc." The only time we ever seem to use the term "scrim" (when referring to nets and silks), is when we're referring to the box that holds them. Mostly, when an LD or DP asks for scrim, they're referring to "wire," the circular metal screens that are dropped into the barndoor holders of Fresnels to reduce their output.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_s. Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 <p>Ralph, since you have a background in TV and also film I guess why don't you build up your studio in a more "cinematographic" way?</p> <p>I'm thinking like a movie set on location using silks, bounce boards, flags, cutters, cookies, chinese lanterns etc etc. And all the grip gear. It seems endlessly more flexible and with more creative lighting possibilities compared to the typical still photo gear used for portraits that is perhaps a bit more formulaic.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 <p>Thanks for your comments, Pete. Actually, I'm really enjoying the convergence of both film/TV and still photographic tools and techniques. And since a lot of tools from the still world have migrated to the film/TV over the last few decades (and, vice-versa) there's already been a lot of cross-pollination anyway. I think it's a great time for those from either craft to consider the latest tools from both trades, since the tools from each craft have continued to improve, and now manufacturers realize they can sell their products to both markets.</p> <p>I will, as I've mentioned, be applying a few film/TV techniques to my still photography; however, some of these tools and methods simply take up too much space, and often, the tools designed for cine applications simply don't produce enough output for still photography. Also, lighting instruments made for film/TV use can be very expensive: e.g., $1,800 for a 1' x 1' LitePanel, $2,500 for a KinoFlo Image80, $6,000 for a Joker 800 HMI, etc. But, for those interested, the vast array of film-oriented grip and lighting equipment certainly offers a lot applications for still photographers as well.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_bill Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 <p>Ralph, and removing the wire scrims from the fresnels with a c-74, a modified c-47. Like the song, hot, hot, hot. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 <p>Pete said:</p> <blockquote> <p>. . . I'm thinking like a movie set on location using silks, bounce boards, flags, cutters, cookies, chinese lanterns etc etc. And all the grip gear . . .</p> </blockquote> <p>Not to overlook the thrust of your comments--yes, to those who may be unfamiliar with the wide variety of grip equipment available, more commonly used in TV and motion picture production, I would highly recommend calling Matthews Studio Equipment in Burbank, California, at 1-800-CE-STAND. Ask to be mailed a full-line, printed catalog (a slick, professionally printed catalog), and current price list. It's much easier to read than their less than user friendly website, and is a great way to learn about all the available grip equipment.</p> <p>Major grip equipment manufacturers include:</p> <p>Matthews Studio Equipment: http://www.msegrip.com/product.html<br /> Modern Studio Equipment: http://www.modernstudio.com/<br /> American Grip, Inc.: http://www.americangrip.com/<br /> Norm's Grip: http://normsgrip.com/</p> <p>Also, as many of you are already familiar, Manfrotto also makes their own versions of the most-common types of standard grip equipment as well.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 <p>Bob said:</p> <blockquote> <p>Ralph, and removing the wire scrims from the fresnels with a c-74, a modified c-47.</p> </blockquote> <p>Yes, the often underrated C-74! The most innovative modification to the standard-issue C-47 in the history of lighting!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 <p>"Wall of Light" test; single 24" x 32" Photoflex softbox on a Dynalite Uni400 Jr., bounced into a white wall:</p> <p><img src="http://studio460.com/studio460/softtest1-700.jpg" alt="" /><br> Nikon D800E; 105mm AF DC-Nikkor f/2.0D; ISO: 100; f/3.5 @ 1/250th</p> <p>The softbox was too close to the wall in this quick test I just shot (night interior). It just didn't have enough spread (notice the hard shadow below the chin). I framed the guitar in the background to also observe DC effects. Need to clear away some stuff in the living room to get a larger wall bounce, then remove the softbox for a wider spread.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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