My lab is telling me to do no editing on my photos

[michael_scharf]

<p>Hi,<br>

<br />I am a very part time photographer and recently switched labs, as I was unhappy with the turn around time on the other lab. I use an FTP to upload my images in JPEG. I shoot in raw and edit in lightroom 4. My prints weren't coming back the way I had hopped so I called the lab for some trouble shooting. The are telling me that I should only crop and no other editing should be done. I asked how they can make adjustments properly after I have already converted the raw files to jpeg. In a nice way they said you know how to shoot the pictures and we know how to print them. He went on to tell me how they have special software to handle the adjustment. He continued to tell me that my adjustments were messing up their computer system making the photos look bad. I thought that once out of raw you can no longer make serious adjustments without major quality loss. Should I switch labs or am I the one who doesn't know what I'm talking about? <br>

Thanks,<br />Mike</p>

[michael_bradtke]

<p>I would try another lab. In my way of thinking even if your edits where causing the problem the labs QC should be kicking bad prints back to be reprinted.</p>

<p>Most of the on line labs I use will color correct or not depending on what you ask them to do.</p>

[dcstep]

<p>Use another lab.</p>

[howard_m]

<p>find another lab</p>

[michael_scharf]

<p>They came highly recommended by a well know photographer in my area. I guess his prints are closer to perfect than mine. I sent in my last print job without any edits and they are going to reprint. I'll see how they come out. If they are less than perfect I'll switch labs. I agree they should be adjusting to correct any issues and at the very least calling me when they see the problem. They just printed the job and sent to me without any notification. They when I called into complain they told me they know what the problem is. The more I write the more I realize that you guys are right "find a new lab". Thank you all for your help. Mike</p>

[tonybynum]

It may be a combination of both. . . You may be creating artifacts that they done like, but they should be printing them

anyhow. Try adorama, bay photo, or one of the larger print services, even costco can do a bang up job, they all use the

same machines, and they all are capable of doing okay work for a good price. If you're needing high end prints go with

west coast imaging. . .

[szrimaging]

<p>I would say that there is probably a combination of both.<br /><br />Yes, a photographer knows how to shoot, but he/she knows how to shoot to get the results they want. This isn't always what comes straight from camera.<br>

So, I'm guessing you should do all major revisions you would during processing, such as split toning, dodging/burning, etc. Then allow the lab to do the fine processing.</p>

<p>Are you working in a color corrected workflow? If your monitor isn't properly calibrated, you could be sending things that are way off in color.<br>

Ask what colorspace they want the image in. My guess is AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB.<br>

Would they prefer a 16-bit tiff or 8-bit jpeg? And remember to use little to no compression. Preferably no compression.<br>

I'm sure there are other questions. But that should get you started.</p>

[tom_mann1]

<p>Can you post some examples of images that you thought were technically ok, but the lab didn't like? I'm sure some very experienced photographers would give you unbiased, expert feedback on the technical aspects. BTW, I went to your gallery here on PN to see if any obvious problem showed up, but you only have 3 images on display, so I couldn't learn much.</p>

<p>Tom M</p>

[gulfbeach47]

<p>I had been using the same reputable, local, custom-lab for a few years to get my contest prints made. Two years ago I went to pick up the prints and could not believe how badly two of the prints looked. They printed them over twice and still the prints were unacceptable. I decided to try the only other custom printer in town and the results were night and day. Been using the other lab ever since.<br>

I agree with the others. Try another lab...or two. For my Smugmug website I always use EZPrints for my family portraits, event shoots etc...and never a complaint (over 1,000 prints sold), but they also offer Bay Photo, which I have read is even better, since they do hand color correction.</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>They came highly recommended by a well know photographer in my area.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>OK, but you should still try another lab! Much of what they told you is malarkey (it's always your fault, never theirs). <br>

I know from experience these guys are good. But is it within your budget?</p>

<p>www.pictoipa.com</p>

[john_h.1]

" ...that my adjustments were messing up their computer system... "

 

Will it hurt too much to test out another lab to see if its computer also gets 'messed up" by your images.

[david_henderson]

<p>Again;- find another lab. Realistically any photographer has to be able to take the decisions on how he wants his work to look. </p>

<p>But be sure- if you aren't working on a calibrated monitor, using profiles that the labs are giving you to fit with their machines and paper choices, then this one could run and run. </p>

[david_henderson]

<p>Again;- find another lab. Realistically any photographer has to be able to take the decisions on how he wants his work to look. </p>

<p>But be sure- if you aren't working on a calibrated monitor, using profiles that the labs are giving you to fit with their machines and paper choices, then this one could run and run. </p>

[Uhooru]

<p>Besides all the advice above, why not send them one the way they like it and see how it comes back. Just do a medium sized print. Can't hurt.</p>

[zack_zoll]

<p>The most likely possibility is that the printer at the lab prints the way that they want things, and that's the end of it. Since your images don't fit that for whatever reason they blame the computer, since clearly the printer has an unquestionable sense of colour and tone.</p>

<p>I find that the vast majority of labs either mess around with your images based on what the person using the printer thinks is best, or they do absolutely nothing. It's very hard to find a printer that will do either, depending on the situation.</p>

<p>What I would do (and this goes for ANY new lab) is to ask them what file type they want. I wouldn't even mention any editing. Then I would ask if they do corrections, or print images the way they are submitted. If you're doing a small order, I would ask that they print a set with their corrections, and a set exactly as submitted. This will tell you how their machine sees colour vs. your own system, and it will also tell you if the person working the printer has a very different idea of what is correct than you do.</p>

<p>I shoot a lot of low-contrast images, and a lot of very dark images. That's the way they're supposed to be. Most labs lighten my photos and add contrast, which drives me NUTS, so I always have to specify what I want.</p>

<p>There is one other possibility. Many FTP services can't handle large or high-resolution files, as they're designed to print a hundred vacation photos or whatever. It's also not uncommon for FTP servers to have trouble with 16 bit files. It's possible that this is what's causing the problem, and the tech that you spoke to didn't know enough to properly explain it.</p>

<p>Either way, it's almost certain that the problem is the printer.</p>

[MathewDH]

<p>Most labs are running an automatic color correction software. This is not told to most people who are common folk and just want some prints. That software enhancement system can make average photos look a little better. What I noted from my run-ins with it is dark photos will come out lighter and thus viewable, and light photos will get darker. Not only does it screw with these settings, it also alters the colors and the constrast values. So an optimum adjusted image will look terrible when printed with that software active on the printer.</p>

<p>So any lab you use must know how to turn off the software, and you must ask for it to be turned off when your prints are being made. High quality labs will usually not make any changes to an image. You get back what you gave them, good or bad. Some do like to tinker a little. I resist this as I cannot judge how acurate the print is until I get home to verify it against the monitor. However, sometimes I get a print that nowhere looks like I was expecting. The answers for this are not always obvious.</p>

<p>Regarding Costco. At one time you had to tell them to turn off the color correction software. Then they added an on/off check to the kiosks where you submit the images. They still do not want the average buyer to know this as it is not posed to the customer in the normal selection process panels. It actually shows up when you get to the reciept page with the charges. At the lower left area will be the mention for "Always use color correction" or something like that. The box is already checked to show it is active. You have to uncheck the box to turn off the software. If you miss it at that stage, you will get crap. But it needs to be mentioned, there is still no guarentee they will look like your mind wants them to look.</p>

<p>CHEERS...Mathew</p>

[john_harper9]

Regarding Costco printing, you can download printer profiles for your favorite stores for LR print output, and as Mathew stated, remember to turn "auto correct" to OFF for your print job. If you submit print jobs via the web interface, change your default auto correct setting with My Account->edit print preferences. My printing at Costco has been consistent with auto correct off.

[bebu_lamar]

<p>I would switch lab because they are certainly BS to me. <br>

Once the file is either jpeg or tiff, there is only one way to print it and it should come out looking the same no matter who print it. Please let me know who is the lab that told you this as this is the very serious offend to a customer in my opinion.</p>

[paddler4]

<p>First, calibrate your monitor, if you have not already. If you don't, it is complete guesswork what the print will look like.</p>

<p>then find a different lab. What this lab is telling you is nonsense. One of several excellent choices is Bay Photo. They have two choices: one in which they do color correction, and an economy service in which they don't. Since I use a color-managed workflow, I use the economy service. I mostly print on my own, so I have not used them often, but every print I have gotten from them has been excellent.</p>

<p>Since you use LR4, you can soft proof the image. Bay Photo will send you their ICC for softproofing. Other good labs should as well, i would assume. I had good luck with Bay Photo before LR had soft proofing, but there is no reason not to use it now that it is there.</p>

[digitaldog]

<p>I'd agree that Costco is a good route as custom ICC profiles for each (or many) are available and well built. <br>

The other thing to do is download a color reference image that is known to produce excellent output. There's a few around the web including my Printer Test File (in ColorMatch RGB) on my web site.</p>

<p><a href="http://digitaldog.net/files/Printer%20Test%20file.jpg">Printer Test File</a></p>

<p>Send that to the lab and examine what you get back. If skin tones, neutral grays and other such memory colors don't look good, your lab screwed up, as simple as that. The RGB numbers in the document are correct at this point in the process. You can of course use this to properly calibrate then profile your display for a visual match. </p>

[Landrum Kelly]

<p>You tell the lab to do no editing, not the reverse.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

[brian_ellis19]

<p>Nobody knows what I want my prints to look like except me. I can't imagine sending an unedited jpg to a lab and counting on the lab to make the print look like I want it to. I can't even imagine a lab would think they could do that, at least not without some input from me.</p>

[otto_liulia1]

<p>You tell the lab what to do, not the other way around.<br /> I would request ICC profile(s) from the lab. Also, you should have your displays correctly color calibrated. Then you can match what you see to what the prints will be like.<br />The lab shouldn't do any adjustments, just output what you send them, exactly like you send it to them.</p>

[tom_mann1]

<p>This topic obviously struck a resonant chord among photo.net members seeing how there have been 18 posts (all saying more or less the same thing) since the OP last responded. For example, he never responded to my request, very early in this thread, to post a sample or two of the images that triggered this thread.</p>

<p>Tom M</p>

[david_henderson]

<p>Tom, suggest you give it a day or two. He's got a track record of hanging in there on threads he starts.</p>