Upgrade from 20D

[vab3]

<p>The 20D has been a work-horse, but it is time to upgrade. I'm mostly shooting my kids, vacations, and events. To get better quality and performance in lower light and video for short clips. I like to buy used.</p>

<p>I'm shooting a Tamron 17-55/2.8, EF 28-105, 24/2.8, 50/1.8, EF 70-300 IS, and Tokina 12-24 (rarely).</p>

<p>So, 7D or 5D mk2? I'm wondering how much better the 7D's autofocus would be for kids. People on the forums seems to like the 7D autofocus, but this article (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras) and a number of reviews aren't very favorable. To be fair, the article doesn't discuss tracking subjects. I'm guessing the 5d2 autofocus would be fairly similar to the 20D, but work slightly better in low light. </p>

<p>I'm also attracted to full frame, because I used to get a good feeling from the ELAN 7 with the 50/1.8. (and all that for about $400!) I know I could pick up a 35mm prime but I think the shallow DOF and dynamic range of TMAX 400 is what made me like that combo. </p>

<p>If I purchase the 5d2, I'll sell the 17-55 and a Tokina 12-24 to offset the cost, and eventually trade up the 28-105 for something sharper or faster. The 6D is an outside option, but for the price, I'm not sure how much that would give me over the 5D2.</p>

<p>Instead of describing what I shoot, I thought I would show the results that I like. Thanks!<br>

<img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/16471722-sm.jpg" alt="" width="200" height="133" /> <img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/16471721-sm.jpg" alt="" width="200" height="133" /> <img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/16471720-sm.jpg" alt="" width="200" height="133" /> <img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/16471719-sm.jpg" alt="" width="200" height="133" /> <img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/16471718-sm.jpg" alt="" width="200" height="133" /> <img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/16471717-sm.jpg" alt="" width="200" height="133" /><br>

<a href="../photodb/folder?folder_id=1040497">see larger examples</a></p>

<p> </p>

[JDMvW]

<p>I love my 5Dmkii, and do recommend it very highly.</p>

<p>However, I'm still also shooting my Canon 20D, but my next EOS camera will be a 7D. In fact, I nearly bought one locally a few weeks ago until my pending real-estate tax bill made me reconsider.<br /> Last March, I gave my old 5D to my daughter and bought a new 5Dmkii after I figured out that it was only a few bucks more than a used one at that time (and also that I didn't really need the new features on the mark iii).</p>

<p><br /> I guess my point, if I have one, is that I wouldn't want to be without <em>both</em> an APS-C body and a 35mm sensor body. It does mean some duplication of lenses to get the same effective ranges on both bodies (I have both a APS-C ultrawide and a 35mm-sensor ultrawide), but I love being able to carry my 24-105mm lens on the bigger format and my 100-400mm on an APS-C body, where it gets more "reach", if you will.</p>

<p>So, if you go to so-called "full-frame", at the very least keep your 20D. 8MP ain't too bad, even if the viewfinder is a little small and dark.<br /> If you need the new features (wi-fi, etc.) on the 6D that's fine, but there are other features in which the 5D2 has an advantage, at least for the kind of shooting I do.</p>

[William Kahn]

<p>I went the same route as JDM and have never regretted it. My 20D is still my backup camera...</p>

[Marcus Ian]

<p>If you go FF, you'll only effectively loose the superwide (18-24mm) ranges, as the 24/2.8, and 28-105 (or whatever you replace it w/) will act at their 'natural' FL. The tamron 28-75/2.8 is a natural (and inexpensive) upgrade for the 28-105 in terms of IQ, and sharpness - even WO and near for a FF user.<br>

Certainly, an upgrade to a 7D is less complicated, but aside from an additional 10mp, based on what you like to shoot, I expect it wouldn't <em>add</em> much (except better noise at high ISO) to your capabilities. A 5d2 will, to a greater degree, increase your photographic capabilities (though with added cost, and complication - given your lenses) giving you even better (than the 7D) high ISO noise, and increased control of DOF.</p>

 

[roamingstudio]

<p>I went 20D--> 7D and cant fault the transition. Yeah there will always be something better out there; but the composition and person experience behind the camera are just as important these days.<br>

<br />The biggest difference I noticed: Focus points and no more cleaning of the sensor. My old 20D always needed a clean or two a week - but the 7D traveled around New Zealand for 7 weeks changing between Tokina 12-24; 28-105L and 70-300 without any noticable marks on any photos. And it was at the beach; on boats and in rain forest. </p>

[Andy Collins]

<p>I went from a 30D to the 7D. The 7D is worlds ahead of the 20D/30D in every way, specifically AF and metering. The AF is much faster and much more accurate, in my opinion, and my keeper rate is much higher. The camera is also amazingly configurable, from the speed of the AF switching subjects to the direction you turn the dials. High ISO performance is significantly better, and now with the new features added by the recent firmware, the 7D is almost a new camera, with features like in-camera RAW processing and an increased RAW buffer. I agree with JDM that having a FF and a crop body like the 7D is a great idea and with the prices of the 5DII falling, I will be adding one to my camera bag before too long.</p>

[steve_torelli]

<p>I suppose the expression "worlds ahead" can mean different things to different people. Having gone through a 350D, 20D, couple of 5Ds, a 40D and finally a 5DII ( As an aside, don't you think they can safely drop the "D" from the name of every camera they make. I mean, when was the last time anyone introduced a new film SLR ? ) the difference in IQ hasn't been as great as one may have thought. All fine cameras and, as Andy said, with the intro of each new model, ahead of the previous one but I wouldn't say "worlds" ahead. AFA IQ, some of my best pictures were taken with my 20D, many of which hang on the wall along side some FF prints. If I hadn't taken them myself, I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.<br>

No doubt the current crop of bodies are better than that 20D, but it was a damn good camera and I very often wish I still had it.</p>

[Andy Collins]

<p>I agree with a lot of your points, Steve. First of all, yes, it's probably safe to drop the "D" from camera names...I never really even thought about how silly that is at this point in camera manufacturing! I also agree that the 20D is still a very fine camera and some of my finest pics were taken with my 20D when I had it. In fact, some of my all-time greatest pictures were taken with my Olympus InfinityZoom 230 p&s camera I bought way back in 1992, but that's a story for another time. I do personally feel that the 7D is "worlds ahead" of the 20D, starting with the AF and particularly when I think about the 19 cross-point array and the dedicated Digic 4 processor specifically for it, as well as the many different ways to set the AF. I also think that the metering took a giant leap forward with more zones and adding distance data to the mix. Wireless control of the flash through a built-in transmitter, sophisticated video, 8fps at full 18mp resolution, and the host of additional features that came with the new firmware. A very solid build with weather sealing (comparable to that of the EOS 1n, according to Canon) on top of all of that add up to a camera that is worlds ahead in my opinion, but as you correctly stated, that phrase has different meanings for different people. I'm very easily impressed by things. I've never wanted another 20D but ironically I do want another 10D. Go figure! Maybe because it was my first dslr. That was a great camera too! Okay, how about <strong><em>"significantly improved"</em></strong> instead of "worlds ahead"?</p>

[vab3]

<p>OK, no more Ds.<br>

How about AF on the 5.2? Similar to the 20? </p>

 

[steve_torelli]

<p><strong>"significantly improved"</strong> brings a smile to my withered face. Agreed.<br>

I think my point is that, even though each camera is better than its predecessor, for example, the 7s (no D) improved AF, I haven't seen, at least in my own work, a significant difference in IQ in the final print. Makes me wonder if I would have been just as well off staying put, camera wise, with my old 20. Ah well.<strong><em><br /></em></strong></p>

<p> </p>

[lester_wareham]

My expierence is similer to Marc.

 

Can a 5D2 owner comment if this camera needs as little cleaning (none) as the 7D?

[bob_king2]

<p>I have both the 7D and 5DII. I purchased the 7D solely for its AF speed, tracking, frame rate and buffer. It has not disappointed. I upgraded from a 40D, which I still have. The 40D is no slouch but the 7D is better. If IQ is the main criterion then I use the 5DII. It has slightly higher resolution than the 7D and I find the images are cleaner, especially at higher ISO. If I want AF performance and speed generally, I use the 7D. The 5DII's AF is not bad. They both have sensor cleaning which works well. Both are excellent cameras.</p>

<p>Cheers, Bob</p>

[Marcus Ian]

<blockquote>

<p>OK, no more Ds.<br /> How about AF on the 5.2? Similar to the 20?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Similar, but better. Some people complain about how 'similar' it is, but I've found it to be pretty darn accurate, and fast. Of course I also use one (center) point AF for 99% of my shooting, but it works and works well. Better than any xxD I ever used, including the 20D, 30D, 40D, or 50D. </p>

<p>As far as the Ds go, I disagree. An EOS x'D' is far preferable to the plethera of 'v's, 'n's, 'e's, 'ne's and so on we used to be cursed with. Though I'm sure that the marketing folks were the ones who made that decision, in this case, I can't fault their judgement.</p>

[jamie_robertson2]

<p>If you're coming from a 20D you will probably be reasonably happy with the AF on the 5D2. The centre point is excellent but the outer points are a complete joke. They fail to lock on with any degree of accuracy which makes them next to useless, especially when shooting at wide apertures. Also, all the AF points are concentrated near the centre of the frame which partially defeats the object of having multiple points. Other than that, I cannot fault the 5D2. Mine has been excellent and, after 3 years of heavy use, I have no plans to upgrade.</p>

[Member69643]

<p>The relevant question to me is what do you gain from an "upgrade" that you can't live without? Let's say you take a 20D photo of your kids and it's nice, sharp, shows "the moment" well, but it's a bit noisier than the same sort of image from a newer camera at the same ISO would be. You can show the existing image to grandma and say "this is little Pookie riding her first zoo train" and grandma agrees, yes, it shows just that. Grandma doesn't frown and say "wow, that's a bit noisy isn't it?".</p>

<p>So you spend $1500 to get a newer camera. What could you have done with $1500 that you might have enjoyed more? A vacation to a nice place? </p>

[vab3]

<p>That's a really good question. I'd enjoy buying a new camera and experiencing how it works. I'll keep it for 5 years and then upgrade again. I also enjoy pondering which one to buy. Maybe I should spend my $1500 renting various cameras and writing reviews!</p>

 

[Member69643]

<blockquote>

<p ><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=523585">Victor Boudolf, III</a> , Sep 21, 2012; 04:45 p.m.</p>

 

<p>That's a really good question. I'd enjoy buying a new camera and experiencing how it works. I'll keep it for 5 years and then upgrade again. I also enjoy pondering which one to buy. Maybe I should spend my $1500 renting various cameras and writing reviews!</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Oh, believe me, I agree with you 100% on the thrill factor of a new camera. I love it. It's just that very often we justify it based on other reasons - the new camera is faster, less noisy, makes toast in the morning... :) In my case I'm not spending a lot of money because I vastly prefer film cameras to digital, but it still adds up.<br>

I'm going to make 2013 my year of no new camera (sorry, 2012 is a TOTAL loss in that regard!) because I want to concentrate on getting better at the craft. More time in the darkroom too. And I want a pony...</p>

[phule]

<p>A pony that will also make you toast?</p>

 

[Andy Collins]

<p>Or a pony with less noise...</p>