linda_kusch Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 <p>I could use some advice. I admit I perhaps stretched beyond my skill level and bought my first FF camera, upgrading from my well used 30d to the well reviewed 5diii just two weeks ago. I have not studied the manual nearly enough, but jumped in and started shooting my sons' soccer season (it would surely be over before I mastered this beautiful camera!) I also sold and upgraded my lens from the 70-200 2.8 IS to the mk II. Looking over my early results I am not thrilled with the IQ. When cropped to 100%, they are soft - to my eye. I understand from some reviews that the jpegs out of this camera are not superb. I have never shot in RAW before, and if that is the answer, I will just have to start. Are those of you out there that are big fans of this camera all shooting RAW? If you are getting great jpegs then I may have a problem. I may have a bad copy, with about 10 days left to return it. Or maybe its what I usually suspect - I'm missing something. <img src="http://www.photo.net/photodb/member-photos?user_id=2223355" alt="" />Any thoughts? </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda_kusch Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 <p>I tried, unsuccessfully to link two soccer photos to this post from my file on this site. Maybe someone can advise me. Thanks in advance for the help. I always get good advice on this site. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith reeder Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 <p>Two hints straight away, Linda:</p> <p>1) Jumping straight in to the 5D Mk III after using a 30D - <em>bad</em> idea.<br /> 2) <em>Don't evaluate at 100%! </em>Judge your images <em>as images.</em></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda_kusch Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 <p>What should the equipment progression be? </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Smith Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 <p>Always have your shutter speeds 1/500 or higher. Agree with Keith, I fear you wasted your money on the upgrade to the new 70-200mm - wonder why you did this?</p> Robin Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phule Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 <p>There is no reason why you can't jump from a 30D to a 5D Mark III. But if you're expecting the camera to magically become the photographer for you, then you're in for a bit of a surprise! :) The tools are only as good as the person holding them. Everyone has to climb the learning curve at different rates and different times.</p> <p>I agree that viewing your images at 100% is unnecessary unless you're planning on making very, very large prints. You should be evaluating your images within the context of your intended output. If you're making moderate prints, then make moderate prints and judge the images there.</p> <p>If you don't want to shoot RAW right now, then you will need to setup your camera to output JPG files that you are satisfied with. This will mean making changes to in-camera contrast, sharpening, etc. You will have to spend more time with the user manual, and with online guides to begin understand not only how to do this, but what sort of impact it will have on the output.</p> <p>But most of all, don't try to solve every problem at the same time. A methodical approach will help you gain a better understanding of your needs and of photographic principles in general.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zml Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 <p>Linda - try using in-camera JPEG (highest quality and full resolution) with the factory "standard" picture setting, on a <strong>stationary</strong> subject. Use a single, center, AF point only (to eliminate as many variables as possible), decent shutter speed (say, 1/250 s at f/2.8 with IS on) and shoot a few frames at varied focal lengths. Evaluate on a computer monitor (not on the camera LCD) and see whether you like the results. If these shots are "soft" (whatever that means to you) perhaps your lens requires in-camera focus adjustment (MFA.)<br /> The Mk II 70-200 is a wonderful lens, tack sharp and with great AF perfomance especially with the newer cameras, but bad shooting technique can turn even the best lens into a piece of unbelivable crap. Of course, things do happen and you may have a really lousy, out of whack, specimen of the lens but that's very unlikely (in which case cart it off to Canon for adjustments.)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda_kusch Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 <p>After much research online, the majority of the opinion about this lens was that there was noticeable improvement in IQ. It is my most used lens. I loved the mkI copy which I've had for six years and decided to upgrade IF I got the right price for it. When I secured asking price, and a cash sale I decided that was my sign to upgrade. As for the 5dIII, I also did exhaustive research, and never did I see a review, a posting or an article warning not to upgrade if you weren't properly trained or had a certain level of experience. The reviews were stellar, and included commentary from photo enthusiasts, hobbyists, and professionals. IMO all of these SLR cameras, and the software they require demand an investment in time to master. I am willing to make that investment again - as I did with my first SLR (30D), even hiring a photographer to give me one on one time - and posting pertinent questions to knowledgeable people online. I LOVE photography. At this point, I'm just hoping for some helpful input so I can determine if this copy is good or bad. (the shutter speed is relevant - although I can usually shoot 350-400 without a problem)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydesi Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 <p>I don't think you wasted your money. With any new gear, there is a learning curve as you adjust to the unfamiliar equipment. Your shots may not be as good initially, but as you adjust, you will likely get better results, especially if you learn to take advantage of all the additional features of your new gear. </p> <p>With the higher MP count on the 5DMkIII, at 100%, the images will appear to be softer than what you saw at 100% from your 30D when viewed on the same screen. This is normal and not a problem. Also, you may be using a different treatment of the JPG files in each camera...perhaps the 30D had more sharpening applied in camera. What you should really try is to evaluate the shots after you are finished whatever processing you plan to use.</p> <p>Shooting raw can take some practice, since you'll be doing all of the editing yourself and the camera won't be helping you out. I suggest at least starting by shooting raw + jpg, that way you can fall back on your jpg for a decent picture until your processing skills are developed. Raw gives you much more leeway in processing your images, and is worthwhile to learn. It's not a substitute for getting things right in the camera, of course, but it does give you more creative freedom.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Smith Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 <p>Linda, the new 70-200mm is an excellent lens, it's just a lot of $$ to be splashing around. I would have got the camera first before changing the lens as the difference you will see with the zoom Mark II over the MkI will be incremental only whereas the change to the MkIII will be great. Well you have them now, so lucky you!</p> Robin Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith reeder Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 <blockquote> <p>What should the equipment progression be?</p> </blockquote> <p>I mean "jumping in" in the sense you used the phrase, Linda - the 5D Mk III is too different from the 30D for you simply to assume that you'll get the best out of it without first thoroughly reading - and re-reading - the manual.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthijs Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 1/400 @ 1600 ISO Did you compare your pictures to 30D pictures using the same parameters? Could you post 100% crops of a small portion of the picture that should be sharp? Do you still own the old camera and lens? If so you might want to test a swap to see if anything is out of order. (old lens-new cam and vice versa) That said, there is a learning curve with any new equipment. As you tamed the 30D I do not doubt that you will tame the 5D-iii. Remarks about a wrong move are in my outspoken opinion utter bollocks. Experimenting with in camera JPG settings is perfectly fine. Plus if you start using Canon's DPP coverter for RAW files (it's not that hard, try it) those setting will be inherited as a starting point for your post processing. Above all, have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
model mayhem gallery Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 <p>Maybe it is just me, but I had no problem going from a 30D to my 5D mark II. However, it would be tremendously hard to go from my 5D Mark II back to the 30D. In terms of softness my 5D II shots look very diffent from 30D shots remember 30D has 1.6 crop factor so it only uses the center portion of the lens. The 5Dx use the whole lens so will look different. However, I agree I would not have done both the camera and the lens aty the same time. You will see more of an improvement in image quality going from 30D to 5dIII than from 70-200 I to 70-200 II if any.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith reeder Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 <blockquote> <p>Agree with Keith, I fear you wasted your money on the upgrade</p> </blockquote> <p><strong>I didn't say that</strong>.</p> <p>I'm suggesting that to move from an old (<em>old</em>), relatively unsophisticated camera like the 30D to something like the 5D Mk III with its multitude of AF options <em>without learning the latter camera thoroughly</em>, might well result in disappointment.</p> <p>Linda "jumping in" without "studying the manual nearly enough" is likely to be the problem here.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith reeder Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 <blockquote> <p>Could you post 100% crops of a small portion of the picture that should be sharp?</p> </blockquote> <p>Doing so tells you nothing - comparisons must be made at equivalent views: 100% of an 8mp sensor and 100% of a 22mp sensor <em>cannot</em> meaningfully be compared.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthijs Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Indeed. But if a portion of the image that should be sharp is shown we might learn something. For instance we might see motion blur or high ISO noise or sharpening artifacts. At the moment I've only seen a downsized image. That tells practically nothing... You can tell quite a lot from an image, even if it's just one image. Not scientifically prove facts but experience can give pointers. Kind regards, Matthijs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Smith Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 <p>It should have read "I agree with Keith. I fear you wasted..." They are separate clauses. I did agree with Keith about reading the manual etc etc. AND I do fear Linda wasted...re the 70-200mm. But there it is.</p> Robin Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith reeder Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 <p>Aye, that makes a difference, Robin!</p> <p>;0)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgpinc Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 <p>Linda,<br> I looked at the two pics that you have on Photo dot net and they look fine. Buying a new camera, even one as good as the 5D III will not automatically make you a Life Magazine photojournalist. There is a lot to learn. That said the two pictures I saw looked okay. What was in focus looked sharp and there was nice blur (bokeh) in the out of focus areas. Forget about the people who told you the 5D III is too good for you or too big a jump from a 30D. Keep reading and learning and by all means keep taking pictures. You will develop the skills and technique to take the pictures you want, get what you want in focus and what you want out of focus, and get the exposure to produce the effect you are trying for. Most of all enjoy your photography! Good luck! </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda_kusch Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 <p>Thank you all for your responses. You all gave me a lot to think about. Jay, you are particularly helpful to me. I appreciate your thoughtful comments and encouraging words. I will continue to read, study and practice with this new equipment and hopefully will feel more confident. You can look forward to many more questions from me down the road. My first, in fact, is: how do I post full photo files to this site if I want them evaluated like I wanted today? Thanks again!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neill_farmer2 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 <p>Linda, you have purchased a fine cmera and a fine lens, they will give you many years of superb photography. Your photos should be sharp at 100%. If they are not then I think you should set about taking a few shots of different subjects in good light to find out what setting or technique is causing the problem.<br> I would go looking for too slow a shutter speed and inaccurate focus first. With modern cameras and lenses and their high resolving power the old rule of thumb of shutter speed = 1/focal length is too slow for general photography, go for a shutter speed much faster 1/800th or for action 1/1000th.<br> Next look for sources of focus errors. Your new camera and lens may, due to manufactureing tolerances require some Micro Adjustment. The manual describes how. If this is the case it is not a fault, many of us need to do this. If you look at your photos see if there is a place where the focus is sharp, that will give you a clue as to which way the adjustment needs to go.<br> Finally the in camera jpegs are dependant upon the settings in your camera. You can change these to suit. A better way is to shoot Raw and then change them in DDP (which came on one of the CDs with your camera). Shooting Raw gives you much more flexibility to adjust your images.<br> I am sure there is nothing wrong with your camera or yourself, you just need to get to know it better.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith reeder Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 <blockquote> <p>I am sure there is nothing wrong with your camera or yourself, you just need to get to know it better.</p> </blockquote> <p>Which is the - routinely misrepresented - point I've been making all along.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda_kusch Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Thank you so much! That Is great advice and I will certainly take a good look at all of it. I really appreciate the time you took to answer so thoroughly. I feel much better having all these photographers considering how to approach my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou_Meluso Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 <p>How to post images?<br> <a href="../info/frequent-questions#upload_forum_images">http://www.photo.net/info/frequent-questions#upload_forum_images</a></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 <p>The two Soccer images in your portfolio have technical and technique errors.<br /> The first image is made at at too slow a shutter speed (1/400s) and exhibits SUBJECT MOVEMENT. Also the BALL (as well as moving) is in front of the acceptable field of sharp focus (i.e. OUTSIDE the Depth of Field) and thus appears more ‘blurred’.<br /> The image also appears slightly UNDERexposed for skin tones.<br /> Hard side lighting, (IMO) requires a decision to be made apropos exposure for skin tones to render the best facial expression and that means (IMO) not using an automatic camera mode (i.e. Av Mode) when one is shooting from (mostly) the same vantage point – OR – IF one chooses to use Av Mode then one must ensure that a suitable EXPOSURE COMPENSATION is used when the scene changes to hard side lighting. This may mean some highlights will be blown to get an adequate facial expression.</p> <p>The second image appears also to be UNDERexposed for skin tones and although shot at a faster Shutter Speed, (1/800s) that speed is not really suitable for that typical field sport, for boys of that age: 1/1250s would be a good base.</p> <p>The underexposure makes the images appear ‘murky’ and whilst that is not related to sharpness, the murkiness makes the images appear, less sharp.</p> <p>EXAMPLE – Field Sport,<br /> <a href="../photo/15618414">Exposure for Hard Side Lighting and example of typical SHUTTER SPEED</a></p> <p>WW</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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