Can't get it right with Artisan 837 and Ilford Gold Fibre Silk

[thierrylaflamme]

<p>Bonjour, Hello,</p>

<p>I bought a new printer last weekend. Since then, I can't get a usable print from my Epson Artisan 837. All colours are wrong. I tried with the ICC Profile suggested on Ilford's website, but it is a real mess... all prints look awful.</p>

<p>I tried earlier today with a different kind of paper (HP - Glossy), and I was fortunate enough to get a very nice print. However, I deeply prefer Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, and with that paper, I don't know what goes wrong, but all colours are bleached (they look washed). My prints also have an extreme green dominant - in fact, all shadows are green... :-(</p>

<p>What should I do? Please have a look at this sample to have a better understanding of the situation: http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=7g81pc73mxac1em<br /> <br /> Has anyone experienced something similar with Ilford papers?</p>

<p>Thanks deeply for your help.</p>

<p> </p>

[RobertChura]

<p>I read this about the printer http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2394753,00.asp<br>

It doesn't seem to be a quality printer for Photo images and in the review he stated it had a tint as well. What program are you using to print? Lightroom ? Photoshop?</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>All in one printer/scanner/etc. machines are usually a compromise. I was satisfied with my HP Photosmart C4210 until I dug my Epson Stylus Photo R200 out of the closet and tried it again.</p>

[thierrylaflamme]

<p>Thanks Robert and Lex. I really appreciate your help.<br /> I think this might have something to do with my color management in Photoshop 7. Even if I use Epson paper (on my Epson printer) and follow the ICC Profile suggested - if I do not make a drastic change in more advanced settings, it is impossible to get something decent from any photo paper. Prints look almost like drawings. The saturation of colors is not only wrong, but extremely saturated.<br /> If I only knew that I needed a Master's Degree in Color Management to use a printer properly... :-(</p>

[Tim_Lookingbill]

<p>Your print sample looks close to what I get using an Apple Gutenprint Driver on my $70 "Three In One" Epson NX400 in Mac OS 10.6.8. From my experience with this particular Epson model they do best selecting "Let Printer Manage Color" and not Photoshop.</p>

<p>You didn't mention what OS you're using. This may make a difference because I'm convinced using Apple supplied Epson NX400 drivers is doing something under the hood for getting close color matches but with specific settings in the Epson driver. Scroll down to the bottom of the linked thread to see how close a match I get on Ultra Premium Glossy paper...</p>

<p>http://www.photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00VQNB</p>

<p>The reason I say there's some odd things going on under the hood is due to the fact that I've had to keep changing the color space of the source image through several OS updates and Apple supplied Epson drivers to where now it doesn't matter what the color space is printing out of Photoshop CS3/CS5 or out of Apple's Preview.</p>

<p>Before, if it was in AdobeRGB I'ld get a match, do an upgrade, it now prints dull like assigning sRGB to an AdobeRGB written image. Convert to sRGB and I get a match. However, if I print the same file out of Preview I'ld get results similar to your posted print sample except with a magenta cast instead of green. Now with the final upgrade it doesn't matter the color space. I get a match either way out of all apps.</p>

<p>My Epson driver settings for getting this match out of Photoshop CS3 Printer dialog set to "Printer Manages Color" and Apple's Preview in Mac OS 10.6.8:</p>

<p><strong>Printer Settings </strong>menu set to Premium Glossy Paper (for printing to Ultra Premium Photo-<em>select and test other paper types (matte?) for your specific Ilford Gold paper to get a better match</em>), Best Photo, High Speed.<br /> <strong>Color Matching</strong> menu set to Epson Color Controls (it may be grayed out but already selected),<br /> <strong>Color Management </strong>menu Color Controls selected, Mode: AdobeRGB, Gamma: 1.8 (try out 2.2 if it's too washed out and vice versa if too dark).</p>

<p> </p>

[thierrylaflamme]

<p>Thanks a zillion times Tim for taking the time to explain and find a solution. It is very generous. Sadly, after trying what you suggest by letting the printer managing the color, I still get awful prints. It is less ugly than before, but still miles away from being decent to any viewer. Even old pictures from the 60s or 70s taken with a Polaroid would look better than that in terms of color scale. :-)</p>

<p>One thing that I find really bizarre... if I print a normal sheet of paper directly from any website featuring graphics, colors look good and accurate. But as soon as I print in photo mode through PhotoShop, I lose all control and the overall color balance disappear. I am running under Windows XP Pro (I have a PC).</p>

<p> </p>

[Tim_Lookingbill]

<blockquote>

<p>...if I print a normal sheet of paper directly from any website featuring graphics, colors look good and accurate.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Have you tried printing to your Ilford Gold from those same non-Photoshop apps? An alternative of course would be to find an equivalent Epson paper which I believe might be Epson Hot Press Natural Fine Art papers. Or you might just plunk down $70 for the Epson NX400 "All In One" or equivalently cheap printer, scanner, copier. Can't believe the $300 price on that Artisan 837 to the print results you're getting.</p>

<p>BTW thanks for confirming my suspicions by mentioning this happens on Windows XP which points to the fact the OS is having an influence over printer/data communication output that differs from Photoshop.</p>

<p>It might be time to upgrade to a more modern computer/OS to get better results much like I did with the Mac.</p>

[john_a5]

<p>I tried Gold Fibre Silk several times and didn't like it when I used their profiles, but not for the reasons you mention. I finally made my own profile and it is great.</p>

<p>If you use Photoshop Manages Color, you probably shouldn't be doing much with advanced controls as those, as I remember, are really for when the Printer Manages Colors. You set the Photoshop Manages Colors, select your profile and then you only change your paper size, paper type (use the choice Ilford suggests in the Epson choices) and set your quality--no hi-speed, and probably at least 1440dpi and super micro weave--and be sure that color management is OFF in the color management panel for the print settings.</p>

<p>One issue, and maybe this is part of the problem if the above were already addressed, I don't know, but maybe the issue is largely the fact that many of the newer profiles are being rendered in a format that is totally different than what I think was available when PS7 was created, that is one old version! You might try the settings I mentioned above but choose Epson Premium Luster paper profile and see if you get closer to the mark.</p>

<p>Good Luck.</p>

[Tim_Lookingbill]

<p>Just thought of another method but it requires you checking the RGB readouts in Photoshop.</p>

<p>Convert your image to the actual Ilford Gold profile in Photoshop and check and make sure using the Info Palette the green channel on dark neutralish colors at around 30 RGB lighten to around 40-50 RGB and above. If this happens, run a print test of the converted file through the non-Photoshop apps but select No Color Management in Epson's Color Management menu and use a matte type paper. Try Relative and Absolute rendering intents during the Photoshop conversion to see if that gets you closer. If it doesn't lighten the dark colors going by the Info Palette don't even bother testing.</p>

<p>Also try printing from Photoshop using Printer Manages Color. I suggest to save on ink you use a 1x2 inch size image test sample which you'll be able to print 4 across (4 tests with different settings) on an 8 1/2 x 11</p>

[Tim_Lookingbill]

<p>BTW is the Ilford Gold profile selectable in the Epson Printer Settings menu where you select the paper type? Use that instead of Epson matte or any other printer paper type listed. </p>

[john_a5]

<p>Tim, this paper is a gloss paper, not a matte paper. Choosing a type that requires the matte ink will cause other issues. I don't know any paper type other than Epson papers that ever show up as alternatives in the paper choice in print settings. You always have to choose one of Epson's, which the maker of the profile specifies, often along with the choice of Rendering Intent and is what they used as the basis for creating the profile.</p>

[thierrylaflamme]

<p>Wow! You are so nice to me. Thanks for all your advice. I will print each comment and try them over the next few days.<br>

I have to say that I spoke earlier today to a Epson representative (over the phone) for 50-60 minutes. We tried to solve the issue by reinstalling the driver of my printer, then we changed settings in PhotoShop, than with printing options of my Artisan 837.... then I used a different computer, that one running on a different OS... but nothing changed. Still the same as before. The representative was actually running out of suggestions for me.<br>

One thing VERY interesting that I discovered by myself today: when I scan a document that I print directly from the printer, all colors are balanced and the rendition is good. Also, if I print one of my pics in regular mode (text mode) with regular paper and fast speed - yes, the definition is not good, but colors are suddenly looking real and balanced. However, as soon as I turn in printing options to PHOTO mode with other ICC Profile (even starting at Matte Paper), the colors start to look terrible, greenish and bleached or over-saturated.<br>

There is one trail there to investigate probably, but I am not sure what it means, nor what I should do from here.<br>

I know that my new printer is not a professional one and not as expensive as others, but I owned a Stylus CX7800 before that, and even with these all-in-one, I assure you that it is possible to get very decent pics if we are careful all the way - from the moment we capture pics with a camera... to the processing in PS, then finally by chosing the right settings with the printer.</p>

[Tim_Lookingbill]

<p>John, thanks for the paper type correction. Didn't know Ilford Gold was a glossy paper. Guess I should've looked it up on Google. </p>

<p>Well Thierry, I think we've offered every option possible in helping you sort this out in this thread, so good luck finding which works the best. </p>

[thierrylaflamme]

<p>Thanks, Tim. I do appreciate.</p>