wedding photography experience

[graeme_english]

<p>I am looking into starting my own wedding photography buisness, i have taken photos for friends but would like to get some professional experience, i would like to no if there is anyone in the west midlands area that would be happy for me to come along to a wedding that they are shooting in order for me to get some professional experience, i wont interfere in your work but just watch and take photos fron the background<br>

thanks Graeme</p>

[richardsperry]

You are asking for someone to train you to become their competitor.

[keithdunlop]

<p>You're going to have a very hard time finding an established professional photographer mentor you and give you the experience you desire in order to start your own business that ultimately competes with that photographer.</p>

[tom_rittenhouse1]

<p>OK, I am not a wedding photographer. But, I think that the real pros are not worried about training competitors. They usually have more work than they can do, and would be real happy to have some more competent photographers they can pass clients onto, and who can take over a shoot if they are ill or something.</p>

<p>But, I am also sure they do not want someone watching over their shoulder. The way to go about that is to look for a job as someones trainee/assistant. But the thing to watch out for in looking for such a position is that the are actually willing to train you. Too many are just looking for cheap/free help.</p>

<p>The thing to realize is that any kind of self employment is not just doing the job, 75% of it is getting the jobs and running the business. If you can find someone willing to teach you about that stuff, grab onto them like a drowning man, they are rare. That 75% is why the real pros are not worried about competition from amateurs, without that knowledge they are going to be here today, and gone tomorrow. Furthermore, the kind of people that hire them are not going to pay what the pro has to charge, so they are not his customers anyway, no loss to the pro there.</p>

 

[fuccisphotos]

<p><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=6935245">graeme english</a>,<br>

It doesn't appear that english is your first language from your post. When looking for work for things like this, you need to make sure your posts are well written. Any emails you send out to people you would like help from, make sure they are well written too. If you have problems with writing in english, find a friend who can help you compose things that are spelled correctly and use proper grammar. This makes a difference believe it or not. Sometimes so as not to appear as competition, be willing to work for someone in many towns over from you, say a few hours drive, so you wouldn't be their competition. But frankly, if someone use the term competition with me when applying for such a position, I would really wonder about them.</p>

[simon_hickie1]

<p>Hi Graeme. I'm wondering if you are seeing something of a US approach to the business in the replies. In my camera club there are members who are part-time wedding photographers who produce some pretty good work. All have indicated their willingness to have me along as a second shooter. Unfortunately, health issues have seriously constrained what I can do. However, I did shoot a friend's wedding just before Christmas and, as a fellow camera club member the pressure was just that little bit higher!</p>

<p>I seriously looked at the wedding photography business before my health issues cropped up, but couldn't make the figures work as a full-time occupation. It's not just about shooting the event, but all the preparation, contractual and insurance issues that happen before and the post-processing and printing that happens afterwards, not to mention marketing and managing the business the rest of the time.</p>

<p>If you are a people person, have a highly organised work-flow, suitable computing hardware and software, good technical and compositional capabilities, and a high degree of self discipline, you stand a chance. Of these, I've found people skills to be particularly valuable. Especially important is to understand lighting - quantity, quality, colour and direction. Well composed images in lousy light will look lousy, as will miserable looking people. Clients, in my experience, want a well captured record of the day with themselves and their family and friends looking good and enjoying themselves.</p>

<p>You will need a significant investment in camera and computing equipment. For example, I have two bodies, several lenses, two external flashes, three flash brackets, two flash cords, several flash diffusers, three computers, four external hard drives, PhotoShop with various plug-ins and Nikon Capture NX. And I shoot about one or two weddings a year as an amateur.</p>

<p>Offering to work as a second shooter may be a good starting point perhaps to work on capturing candids and informal shots. But joining a good camera club may also be a good way of (steadily) building a network of contacts - and give you an opportunity to have your images critiqued.</p>

[savagesax]

There's plenty of work going around so training someone doesn't mean they will compete against you. If fact they can often work with the trainer and shoot extra jobs.

 

So with this in mind, do out and find someone that will be interested in teaching you and perhaps you can work out a deal with him or her and become an extra or possibly a team member.

[savagesax]

Man I can't type I said do out and find someone. - it should be GO out and find someone! I sure made a mess of this this post!

[fotografz]

<p>Graeme, use spell check, it helps.</p>

<p>Where is the "West Midlands"? I ask, because geography matters.</p>

<p>Some photographers are indeed reluctant to train their competition. Some aren't averse to it at all, especially IF they are at the higher end of the client spectrum. </p>

<p>If photographers have more work than they can handle, as some say, then they are probably under-pricing their services, or are incredibly good, and still underpricing themselves.</p>

<p>Depending on geographical location, there are an enormous amounts of decent wedding studios either struggling, or branching out into other forms of photography to survive. Training new photographers is not on their priority list. In fact, because of the economy, very experience photographers are more available now to assist or second shoot for very reasonable pay. It's just the way it is these days. </p>

<p>Because of the way I cover a wedding, I use a second person for about 70% of my assignments. I used to use beginners almost all the time ... now I can get an experienced person for not a lot more money, and they already know what to do and when. Better product, for the same cost. It's just good business. </p>

<p>This makes it more difficult for beginners to get proper training and experience. However, look around you, there are MBAs serving up coffee at Starbucks and former executives greeting people at retail outlets. Times are tough.</p>

<p>One way to get what you want is to Pay someone to teach you first hand. Just like any other profession, higher education isn't free. </p>

<p> </p>

[ejder]

<p>To "train" a photographer...</p>

<p>If they're experienced and competent at photography but have no wedding experience, then all they should need is a little practice with someone else being the main to guarantee the key shots are obtained. This is almost never the type of person looking to "get into" wedding photography.</p>

<p>If they're NOT really competent at photography, it doesn't really matter how much experience they have with weddings or other occasions...and this is the vast majority of people who start up doing wedding photography and wanting to work under someone else. This person requires an incredible amount of time investment and a photographer who is willing and able to be a teacher. It's very much like a newbie coming into a career industry in dire need of training, and the corporation/business that takes him/her under its wing has to make a financial and time investment into the person before they're capable of contributing anything of any value whatsoever for the business. Since corporations basically won't consider someone who they think is just using them for a training ground and then planning to leave as soon as they've gotten what they need, the same would be equal incentive for any photographer who decides to take someone on as a 'second shooter.' There has to be some GOOD reason to invest so much time/money in a second shooter. They have to have a knack, a genuine interest, AND plan to be useful to the main photographer for a period of time after the training is done. Otherwise...what's the point, benefit, etc., for the main photographer?</p>

[steve m smith]

<blockquote>

<p>Where is the "West Midlands"?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I assume it to be in England.</p>

[Uhooru]

<p>Well to those of you who are going to chide Mr. English on his English, you should probably make sure your English is proper as well. From what I recall dimly from my mostly ignored American grade school education in English, is that proper nouns such as people's names, are capitalized. Maybe you should have someone proof your posts first. Sorry, couldn't resist that:)<br>

Graeme, also keep an eye out on the internet or other sources and look for known professional wedding photographers with work you like and see if they are giving seminars etc. Some of these can be really informative but they will charge a fee. Its not the same as shooting experience but you get an idea of how they go about doing it, what they look for in shooting, often times lots of great technical tips in lighting etc.</p>

 

[hjoseph7]

<p>graeme, you can put an add in the paper in your area for a second photographer. Some people say they will work for free, but that is is tell tale sign that you don't have any experience at all. Create a portfolio, it doesnt have to be a wedding portfolio just one with some of your best pictures then show that porfolio to your clients.</p>

<p>Make sure your portfolio looks professional. If you have any wedding shots include them in there. Like I said you don't need a full blown wedding portfolio to be a second photographer just tell the photographer that you are using a General portfolio to show off your different skills. Do not include photos like sports, nature, auto races, weight lifting contest, food, etc</p>

<p>Attend as many special events as possible and practice taking pictures there. If you get invited to a wedding by all means attend and bring your camera !<br /><br />You can also get some of your friends to help you. What you need is a guy and a gal who are willing to play bride and groom for one day. Rent a wedding gown and a tuxedo then take your bride and groom to beautiful spots where you can take their picture, include that in your portfolio.</p>

<p>If you have the funds purchase a few photos from a Photography Stock agency, I know this is cheating but how else are you going to get started ?</p>

<p>Put an add in the paper or Craig's list and say you will perform an entire wedding for free, this is kind of risky, but I know people who have done this and now they are off.</p>

<p>Getting into wedding photography is like a catch-22, you need a porfolio to show clients, but how are you going to have a portfolio if you never get invited to shoot a wedding ?</p>

<p>Fellow photographers are not very helpful unless you are very lucky and often times your pictures look phony, because the subjects eyes are looking at the main photographer instead of at you !</p>

<p>I had the same problems, but now I'm contracting for a major wedding studio so I can get some experience. The pay is so-so, but at least they let you keep the pictures so that you can build a substantial portfolio after 4 or 5 weddings. They also asked me for a porfolio of a full-days wedding by the way.</p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>I think Grame should be encouraged. He's one of the rare few who pop up here saying he would like to get into the business but first he would like to learn the business and know what he's doing before he starts charging people. As opposed all the posts that start off "I'm staring a wedding photography business, what kind of camera should I buy?"</p>

[shaun_carter]

If you are indeed in england calumet

photo is a pro camera shop with

several locations across the globe that

offers classes in most areas of

photography including weddings. they

have a store located in manchester per

their website.

[lindsay_dobson]

<p>Graeme, I get enquiries just like yours every week, as do all the other pros I know, and without exception they go straight in the trash. </p>

<p>Have you given any thought to contributing something genuinely useful for what would be a superb learning experience (on the pro's overhead)? Otherwise, learning is normally done by tuition, courses, seminars etc. There are some great courses around, have a look at Damien Lovegrove, Crash Taylor, and the training offered in the UK through bodies like the SWPP/BPPA. In fact the world-leading SWPP Convention starts in London next week, with hundreds of classes on every subject, including many on the business of weddings. You'll find more about this event on the SWPP website - if you can make it to London you'll learn more than you ever thought possible, and you'll go home with plenty of contacts too if you approach people in the right way. </p>

<p>There's a lot of business info on my Blog under the For Photographers category - on everything from wanting to 'assist' (not that you even mentioned that) to the cost of being in business. This is relevant to your question and will help you to understand some of the reactions you will encounter if you couch your approach as you did here, along with suggestions of how to move forward: <a href="http://lindsaydobsonphotography.com/blog/?p=1957">http://lindsaydobsonphotography.com/blog/?p=1957</a></p>

<p>Harry's bright idea that you purchase photos from a stock agency has left me quite speechless. </p>