TS-E 24mm (version 1) As A Starter Tilt Shift Lens?

[brad_trostad]

<p>Hi Everyone,</p>

<p>A goal of mine for this year is to gain experience with tilt / shift photography. I'm interested enough (after lots or reading and looking at images) that I'd prefer to buy vs rent. I'm also sure that my interests fall into the more wide angle category so I've been thinking about a used TS-E 24mm (version 1). This will be used on FF (5D2). But I'm wondering if I've missed any other options?</p>

<p>The TS-E 17mm and the new TS-E 24mm (version II) are too much $$$ to be "learner" lenses. The 45mm and 90mm just don't interest me.</p>

<p>I know there is the Mirex adapter but I'm not sure there if there are any Medium Format lenses that will get wider than 35mm and still cost the same as a used version 1? Also, I found references to a 35mm "Super Rotator" but I'm not sure if that would be wide enough if I already know I'm interested in 24mm.</p>

<p>I guess the main part of the question is: Is the TS-E 24mm (version 1) a decent starter tilt shift lens? I know I will have to find it used (and I am comfortable doing that). I suspect it is no longer serviced by Canon - maybe some risk there as well? Is it optically good enough for quality shifted panorama stitching on the 5D2?</p>

<p>Are there other alternatives in this focal length that are Canon mountable, portable and have both tilt and shift?</p>

<p>I'd like to keep the budget around $800 (or less of course). I'm comfortable selling used gear so not too worried if I find I don't care for it or want to upgrade later.</p>

<p> </p>

[JDMvW]

<p>For a lot of us, even the TS-E 24mm mark in is a bit more money than a 'learner' lens. It is a very fine lens in its own right, and a huge amount of professional work is and was done with it. You'll have to be patient to get it for $800, but it does go for that fairly often.</p>

<p>One of the few cheaper ways to get into this is to find an older Nikon shift lens and get an adapter, but you won't get the experience with tilt there, of course.The used tilt <em>and</em> shift Nikons are going to be as expensive as their Canon counterparts.</p>

[Hector Javkin]

<p>If you want a starter lens to see if tilt-shift on this kind of camera works for you, the cheapest way is to rent. You can rent one for two weeks for less than $100 at http://www.borrowlenses.com/category/canon_macro . (I have no connection with the company, it's just one of several that rent extensively by mail.)</p>

[sheldonnalos]

<p>What exactly are your photographic goals? Do you have a specific subject that you want to photograph (architecture with shift? Landscape with tilt?) or is this more about broadening your horizons to learn how tilt/shift works?</p>

<p>A 24mm TS-E would work for architecture photography/interiors but it's not exactly the greatest lens to learn tilt/shift photography on. Tilt is super sensitive with a wide angle, you'll need to use live view to focus for everything to really see the effect and the most you'll probably use for a real world landscape shot is 1-2 degrees of tilt. Creative defocus is cool for some effects if you want to play around with that, just rack the tilt the wrong way and everything goes out of focus.</p>

<p>Personally, I wouldn't consider a 24mm TS-E v1 necessary for standard architecture perspective correction. With the 5D II you've got enough resolution that you can correct in post and still have a decent output. Tilt isn't really needed at 24mm to get things in focus, you've got lots of DOF at f/11 already.</p>

<p>If what you really want to do is broaden you photographic horizons and learn tilt/shift this year, buy a cheap view camera and shoot a little film, then sell it when you're done. It's MUCH easier to see/learn/implement the principles of camera movements when shooting with a view camera. Plus it's fun! I did it for several years and enjoyed it.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>The suggestion of getting to the real thing with a view camera is a good, if rather expensive, way to do this. The trouble is that you may not be happy to go back to smaller format when you're done ;)</p>

<p>You could even end up in a windowless cabin in the woods making your own wetplates.</p>

<p>This message is brought to you by the word <em><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheimpflug_principle">Scheimpflug</a></em>. Start there.</p>

[stp]

<p>I wouldn't call this a "learner" lens but rather a T/S lens that you can afford at this time. If I had to learn to use the lens in this format, I'd stick with Canon rather than purchasing a large format camera that truly employs T/S. I've owned both (and currently have the 24mm T/S II), and while the principles will transfer from large format to Canon, the ability to actually use it on Canon will come best, IMO, from practicing on Canon. However, what Sheldon says about the difficulty of using T/S on a Canon 24mm lens is true in my experience. Still, I suggest you not let that deter you.</p>

[hjoseph7]

<p>"<em>You could even end up in a windowless cabin in the woods making your own wetplates</em>."<br>

<br />I know a guy who use to photograph models until he got his hands on 5X7 view camera.</p>

[scott_ferris]

<p>I second Stephan's reply, wholeheartedly.</p>

<p>He has nailed the situation.</p>

[jim gtz]

<p> I bought this lens a year ago. I am into landscape/nature. My longest lens is a 135mm. I keep this lens on my 5D11 about 75% of the time. Besides using the T & S it works well for me as a simple 24mm. It focuses very close another advantage. I haven't done much testing with panos, for that I go 5+ images anyway. I have found the TS-E 24 v.1 to be optically very good, loses it a little on the edges. Sure I'ld like the version 11, but this one is a keeper. For a "learner" lens it has been very educational, and since it's a keeper the price was acceptable. <br>

Jim</p>

[brad_trostad]

Wow, thanks for all the responses!

 

For JDM: yeah, this is a lot for a "learner" lens. I typically sell the lens I use least to finance the next one so the $$$ amount might not

be so painful but it's nice to know in advance if the next lens has serious flaws, etc.

 

For Hector: thanks for pointing out the rental example! A few years ago I browsed a lens rental brochure and all the specialty stuff

was so much for just 1 week that I pretty much stopped looking that direction. I am now thinking much more seriously about renting

with my only concern being any places that might be scams to overcharge.

 

For Sheldon: regarding my uses, I'm kind of all over the place. My biggest interests right now have been photos of guitars,

motorcycles, outdoor photos (some architecture) and portraits. Most of my favorite guitar and motorcycle photos have been les than

50mm and often less than 35mm. I didn't realize how little tilt was used at 24mm so perhaps 45mm would be better - but I feel

that it will be a bit too confining. I am ver comfortable using live view. Actually, I'm also wondering if the 24 would be useful for video

as I've been doing a lot of that with the FF DSLR lately.

 

For Stephen & Scott: I think your response sorta nailed what I was thinking but I've already learned a lot from the answers so I'm glad

I asked. Actually, the re-iteration regarding tilt on a 24 is what I'm needing to understand before I go any farther with this. For

example, it was my understanding that I could use the tilt to force the focus to run down the strings of a guitar w/o having to have the

camera at a right angle. Perhaps on the 24mm this will be difficult to achieve?

 

For Jim: thanks for your take on your copy of the version 1! I was just about to ask about minimum focus distance (no tilt shift) and it

sounds like it's pretty generouse up close - awesome!

 

Maybe my next question is given my description of photo interests should I rent a TS-E 45mm first?

 

And it doesn't sound like there are really any full tilt and shift DSLR options below 35mm that would be cheaper / better than version 1.

 

- Brad

[scott_ferris]

<p>Brad,</p>

<p>You can use as much tilt as you like. Here is one with the 17 TS-E with 6º of tilt.</p><div></div>

[brad_trostad]

Okay, that rocks! (please forgive bad humor) exactly what I was wondering about. I see that you used the 17mm, do you think that you

can obtain similar results with the 24mm version (given a bit more working distance) or is there something unique to the amount of tilt you can used on a 17mm?

 

I wish I had this type of lens for the following shots I did for a friend - do you think tilt would have helped for these? It seems just a

touch of tilt would really add to these guitar shots::

 

Framus # 1

http://www.amazonbeach.com/PhotoVideo/AmazonBeachGallery/slides/20110515134417_5D2_IMG_1565.html

 

Framus # 2

http://www.amazonbeach.com/PhotoVideo/AmazonBeachGallery/slides/20111025201052_5D2_IMG_6548.html

[scott_ferris]

<p>Brad,</p>

<p>The 24 is much better suited to your images than my 17, I was just playing about for the shot above but as you asked about tilt amount and guitars I thought I'd post it. For my taste it exhibits far too much perspective distortion.</p>

<p>But this is one situation where the factory preset of tilt and shift orientations of the MkI wouldn't work, I used tilt and shift in the same orientation. The major advantage of the MkII 24 over the MkI, besides the image quality, is the ability to easily change the way both tilt and shift work in relation to each other.</p>

<p>Check out<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/modify_canon_tilt-shift.html"> this link.</a></p>

[philip_wilson]

<p>Brad - an adaptor and some MF lenses is a good way of getting into TS at a lower price but you are limited to 35mm at reasonable prices. You also need to choose a system you have or a lower priced one (Mamiya or Pentax 645 are good options). The Mirex adaptor is very good but after bank fees, shipping and taxes is about $400. <br>

In terms of Canon lenses I have the old FD 35mm lens but this is not usable on EOS bodies and the 17 f4. All my longer focal lengths are Mamiya M645 on a Mirex adaptor. Choosing the 17 over the 24 MkII was quite a long process as the 24 has higher image quality but since I shoot landscape the 17 was the one I bought. The 17 gives a 24mm angle of view (but not image quality) with the 1.4x TX and about 28mm on an APS-C body. You will need a camera with live view to get the most out of TS lenses.</p>

[brad_trostad]

<p>To Scott: Thanks for the link, some excellent info there regarding using and focusing these lenses. I bookmarked it. I was aware of the version 1 limitation of tilt orientation vs shift. However this manual option to re-orient works for me - I've had my 50mm f1.4 apart twice now so I'm comfortable with tiny screws and really thin ribbon cables :)</p>

<p>To Philip: Thanks for going into more detail using adapters. If I knew for sure that I would like to use medium format lenses for other situations I think I would give this more serious thought but at this point I think I'm going to stick with a Canon solution if at all possible (unless a Mirex or Hartblei were to present itself at a price to good to pass up). Oh yeah, this entire thread is in regard to a 5D2 so I do have live view available.</p>