Firewire for Raid still a good idea?

[chawn_crawley1]

<p>I'm about to order an upgrade to my current iMac for my business and I feel like I've reached the point where I need to improve my storage, as well. <br>

I have 3.5TB worth of raw files currently, bu I'm beginning to take on some pretty big school accounts and archiving is even more important now. My homework suggests I'm going to look at a raid device between 8 & 12TB configured in a level 5. Regardless of whatever I end up doing with this, I still back up my CF cards on-location, perform a daily backup to a second H/D, and a weekly backup onto 1tb units that I otherwise keep at home. <br>

With the raid's redundancy, I may modify my practices slightly, but I will still maintain an off-site backup on separate volumes.<br>

My only curiosity is with regard to the connection type. I'd love to make use of the new Thunderbolt port that I'm going to have anyway, but to do so, I have no choice (at this time) but to select a Pegasus array. With it's premium cost, I'm struggling between having a "future-ready" raid array as opposed to a more sensibly priced firewire 800 model that allows me much more choice in manufacture. <br>

As of now, and for the foreseeable future I'm not concerned with video and would like to know where folks feel the wisdom is. Will the iMac getting built 4-5 years from now likely have abandoned Firewire altogether and force me to upgrade an entire raid array? I'm also wondering how Firewire is liable to handle the file sizes of +20mp camera resolutions. <br>

I really don't need "shiny new things" but I do want to be sure I'm making choices now that will be in my best interest over the 3-5 years of a new computer.<br>

Thanks for any thoughts!<br>

Chawn</p>

[john_a5]

<p>Firewire is fine. Who knows where Thunderbolt will actually go and for back up, I am not sure it is that big of a deal anyway. Most of the time, I can do a back up in 5-10 minutes with a complete scan (my software clones the drive but only makes changes to files that have changed or been added since the last back up). A completely new back up to a new drive can take a lot of time and I am sure Thunderbolt would be great for that, but how often would you need to do that--not very often.</p>

<p>I gave up on raid drives. The cost and the fact that when they fail you can't easily grab the data back (power source failure) without buying a new unit or paying big bucks to the company turned me off to them. My new procedure seems a lot more reasonable for me anyway. I have an external drive I use for image storage, I download my cards to that drive. I then plug in my back up drive and do a clone back up (I also do this whenever I have processed a number of images). That drive is kept in a fire proof cabinet near my computer. Periodically, the back up drive then goes to an offsite location where I keep a second back up drive. I swap them out and return to my studio and do a clone back up on the drive I just swapped out. If a drive fails, I am covered and if a power source fails, I can put any of the drives into a dock and read it. A simple system and one that is 100% accessible without extraordinary efforts. </p>

<p>Anyway, it is a personal decision but I after losing some data with a raid, I like the simple, straight forward system I use now.</p>

[chawn_crawley]

<p>Thanks for that. As I'm thinking about it, TB isn't liable to <em>really</em> save me time. At least for the time being. If it really comes down to a bottleneck, I'm still held to the process of getting the cards off the camera. If I'm correct, firewire readers have all but gone away and not really been replaced by anything I can use at the moment.</p>

[bgelfand]

<p>Why not pick a network addressable storeage unit and hook to it via gigabit ethernet? That way you can hook one or more Macs and even a PC or two in the future. Al you would need is a gigabit wired router - there are several under $100 and most are also wireless capable albiet at much lower than gigabit speeds.</p>

<p>To get 12 TB in a RAID 5 configuration, you will need a NAS capable of holding 7 physical 2 TB disks (many of the NAS enclosures cannot use disks over 2 TB). That cost you at least $1500 for the drives and depending upon brand and about $1000 or more for the NAS. You may need to go with "enterprise drives" rather than simple PC drives. Check the NAS manufacturer's drive requirements. If you need "enterprise" drives, you are looking at about $2800 just for the drives (at today's inflated prices).</p>

<p>Here is an interesting link where you can read about NAS storage and search for a product.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/finders/nas/products">http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/finders/nas/products</a></p>

 

[chawn_crawley]

<p>I def don't need enterprise stuff. I would only be able to justify 8Tb; given that by the time I project myself reaching 70% of it's capacity (iin raid5 config), there would likely be entirely diferent options, or the alternative of adding to the unit. On the other hand, simply mirroring an 8Tb unit would be cutting things close and not the best use of my budget right now.<br>

I wouldn't turn away from a NAS option; particularly since I do expect to have employees in the next three years.<br>

I have learned that opinions about the different Raid configurations are a lot like ford vs chevy. Other than the fundamentals of what they do, it's tough for a layperson to determine which is ideal. It's a lot like using the webmd app to diagnose an ailment in lieu of a blood test, lol.</p>

[chawn_crawley]

<p>I know less about NAS than I do about Raid. This device has appeal to me though. It states that you can access it remotely "without the complexity and expense of a VPN". Am I correct in assuming I still need a static ip for that feature?<br>

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/828308-REG/Western_Digital_WDBLGT0080KBK_NESN_8TB_Sentinel_DX4000_Storage.html</p>

[Ed_Ingold]

<p>eSATA RAID assemblies are 3x as fast as Firewire, and 8x as fast as gigabit ethernet. You need an interface card compatible with multiport arrays, for about $50.</p>

[bgelfand]

<p>The WD device has a maximum of four 2TB disks. This is, indeed the advertised 8TB as just disks. If the device is configured as RAID 5, the space equivalent to one of those disks is used for parity - error recovery. This leaves only 6 TB for data. Configured as a RAID 1 device, mirroring, two disk mirror the other two. This gives you only 4 TB of data storage.</p>

<p>The WD device does not meet your minimum space requirements.</p>

<p>Here is a good article about the various forms of RAID:</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID</a></p>

<p>Edward is correct, eSATA is faster than gigabit ethernet. The limiting speed factor in any disk configuration is the speed at which the disk physically writes to the platters - usually about 140 megabytes per second which is slightly slower than gigabit ethernet (although raw speeds are deceiving). Gigabit ethernet should suffice. eSata has its own limits - one computer to the device and limited range. There is nothing wrong with if, if you want one box hooked to one computer, although it is being displaced by USB3.</p>

<p>Before you make any decision on external storage, I suggest you do more research.</p>

<p> </p>

[chawn_crawley]

<p>Thanks, Brooks. I may have been misleading in my space requirements earlier. When I origionally stated 8-12TB, I was factoring in mirroring or raid5, respectively; leaving me with 6TB of useable space to work with for the forseeable future. Which is plenty for me, I believe. But given the use of an iMac, I don't believe eSata is even an option for me?<br>

I do agree that gigabit ethernet is sufficient for photography-at least for mine. My original thoughts regarding Thunderbolt vs. Firewire is one of future compatability more than speed, for the most part.<br>

I'm not sure I have the skills to competently deploy a Nas unit, but I do like the idea that I could access that drive from home and work on files. </p>

[Ed_Ingold]

<p>It is true that an eSATA disk drive can only be physically attached to one computer. However, it is easy to share that computer with others in an home network, most easily if you have a common operating system between them. If you establish a VPN, you can access that drive from any location, securely, via a modem connection.</p>

<p>I get a transfer speed of 160 MB/sec between eSATA drives on the host computer, 80 MB/sec via a wired network and 24 MB/sec via wireless. FW800 is in between, at 50-55 MB/sec. Theoretically, USB3 is twice as fast as eSATA. But then, finding suitable devices is largely "theoretical" too. The "thunder" from Apple is largely the beating of drums to make iFans salivate. Apple steadfastly refuses to share their technology with other manufacturers, so that they can remain the sole source for hardware. Personally, I'd rather swim than wade.</p>

[Spearhead]

<p>The OP said he has an iMac. eSATA isn't available on an iMac, except as a fairly expensive third party modification that invalidates the warranty. Apple is going to use Thunderbolt going forward rather than eSATA. eSATA just isn't relevant to the OP's needs.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Apple steadfastly refuses to share their technology with other manufacturers</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It might help to know something about Thunderbolt before saying something like this.</p>

[Brad_]

>>> Apple steadfastly refuses to share their technology with other manufacturers, so that they can

remain the sole source for hardware.

 

Do you mean like FireWire, developed by Apple in the mid 1980s, and then released to the IEEE for

standardization and promulgated as IEEE 1394?

[bgelfand]

<p>Hi Edward,</p>

<p>Thunderbolt is an Intel developed technology; it is the wired, versus optical fiber, version of Light Peak. Ture Intel worked with Apple to bring it to market, but Apple does not have exclusive rights to the technology.</p>

<p>You may read about it here:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/search.html?keyword=thunderbolt">http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/search.html?keyword=thunderbolt</a></p>