Nikon F2's DP 1 meter unreliable in low light or just broken?

[william_george1]

 

<p><em>I couldn't decide if this goes into the Classic Camera forum or here, so apologies ahead of time if it's in the wrong spot.</em><br>

Last spring I bought a Nikon F2 with a DP1 meter and I love it to death. But for one reason or another I never had a chance to use it in dim lighting until last weekend. One roll shot at twilight was under exposed, the second shot at night was black with but a few bright lights. I was using a 50mm f/1.2 lens for both.<br>

After checking the meter against the other meters I own, they all match up in better lighting, but the dimmer it gets, the more off the DP1's readings become. By about four stops in some cases.<br>

I checked the batteries and they're fine. I have read something that suggests the modern 1.5v alkaline batteries don't work well with a meter built for 1.3v mercury batteries. But I want to exhaust all options before I scour e-bay or start metering everything with my iPhone or dust off my old Minolta...<br>

Thanks in advance for your knowledge share.</p>

 

[mtk]

<p>Hi William,<br>

I think you hit it on the head...I think the battery issue may be your underlying culprit, plus add the age of the unit and am not sure about how far down in EV value the DP1 reads. I would check out the great Nikon information on mir.com, it should list the metering range of the DP1. I do not know where to recommend where to have the DP1 repaired...maybe check with KEH.com<br>

I love our old Nikons..I have and use 2 std prism "F"s, FM, FE, and my favorite F3. Keep shooting!<br>

Mark</p>

[peter_simpson1]

<p>Sover Wong. http://www.soverf2repair.webs.com/<br>

If an F2 can be fixed, he'll fix it.</p>

<p>Shouldn't he be a sticky? :-)</p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>Battereries isn't the problem. All F2 were designed to use Silver Oxide or Alkaline batteries and not Mercury.</p>

[david_l3]

<p>All F2's were designed for 1.5V silver oxide batteries. Alkaline battery voltage is not as stable over time and can cause inaccuracies, so be sure to use the silver oxides. I know this from personal experience with my F2. Also, the DP-1, DP-2, and DP-11 use a CDS light cell and it's noted for memory effects. Allow the meter to adjust the low light level and see if that makes a difference. Same goes for bright light conditions, allow a little time for the CDS cell to acclimate. Modern silicone blue, and gallium arsenic, cells in use since the 80's have no memory and are very accurate over an extended brightness range. Btw, the DP-3 and DP-12 finders have silicone blue light cells. </p>

[lilly_w]

<p>William, the DP-1, along with the other metering prisms (2, 3, 11 and 12), was designed to use 1.5V batteries. Check to see the chemistry on your cells. As alkaline cells become fatigued they sometimes have a tendency to provide less reliable metering. I avoid alkaline cells for that reason and their terrible cold-weather performance, instead opting for silver oxide or if bitter cold temps are in the offing, one 3V lithium cell (model CR 1/3N). For starters, try fresh silver-ox batteries. Nikon recommends silver-ox. Also check to see just how fast the needle responds to rapidly changing light. Is the needle stable? Are the slow shttr spds sounding accurate? If you think of it, please let us know what you find, esp after using silver-ox batteries as this info could be beneficial to many others.</p>

[robert_hooper1]

<p>The low light sensitivity of the Nikon DP-1 finder/meter, (only down to EV 1 @ ASA 100), is one of it's major shortcomings. Subsequent DP meters DP-2, DP-3, DP-11, DP-12, meter more reliably down to EV -2 @ ASA 100, a big difference.</p>

[vilk_inc]

<p>"...the second shot at night was black with but a few bright lights"<br /><br />you did compensate for this pattern, right? reflected reading would result in underexposure here</p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>The DP-11 has the same sensitivity as the DP-1 and also has CDS cell. The 3 model with LED indicator and SBC cell did went down to EV-2 but that very good even with today's standard. You will find that the majority of today's camera only have the same sensitivity rating as the DP-1 that is down to EV-1 @ISO100 with an f/1.4 lens.</p>

[william_george1]

<p>Thanks for the responses everyone. </p>

<p>I'll give the acclimatize trick a chance as soon as the chance presents itself. I won't be able to get to a decent enough photography store to pick up some silver oxide batteries until the new year, but I'll get back to you on how it works.</p>

<p>As for the camera itself: Everything works perfectly as far as I've been able to tell. Swift needle. Properly clicky shutter. I admit that it's my first Nikon so it may sound different than I'm used to...</p>

[vilk_inc]

<p>FWIW, I've been using lithium DL1/3Ns ever since they came out in my three "daily" F2 bodies without any surprises or side effects. Correct readings, stable in cold weather, long shelf and in-camera life...<br /><br /><a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/207925-REG/Duracell__2L76_DL1_3N_3v_Lithium.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/207925-REG/Duracell__2L76_DL1_3N_3v_Lithium.html</a></p>

[william_george1]

<p>Hi folks.</p>

<p>After taking all the advice given and applying it it looks like the meter flat out doesn't work in low light. Thanks for the advice. I'll stick with my other meters.</p>

[bob_sunley]

<p>The ring resistors in the F2 heads do wear out and fail, if you are in the UK, Sover Wong rebuilds the F2 heads, google will find him easily.</p>

<p> </p>

[larry_miller5]

<p>I agree with Vilk Inc, the 1/3N's are great batteries. Wouldn't use any others. Except silver oxides in my Quantum light meter.</p>

[sky_ryder]

<p>Recently been hunting for a suitable Nikon sans batteries in emergency. <br>

The F2 looks just the ticket - but people!! -why so hung up on meter accuracy, or even meter functioning? And prices of F2AS! - hundreds of dollars! One can get the indefatigable Gossen Luna Pro for +/- $100 and it will read down to -5 and service ALL of your cameras AND give the pros' unanimous choice of incident light measuring...<br>

What am I missing?<br>

<br />sky</p>

[nic_olas]

Reviving an older thread, but as people in the know of the Dp1 Meters, what would it mean if the meter is somewhat accurate for bright scenes, but completely off at lower light?

I have been moving the ASA dial often, maybe in the fiddling it's fallen out of sync with the resistor ring?

Would adjusting sensitivity on the meter be a good option?

I've cleaned resistor ring and have new 1.5 batteries!

Basically anything that can be done to try and revive before sending away for repairs is the goal!

[orsetto]

The needle-readout CdS meter prisms for the Nikon F and F2 were sturdy and reliable during their original expected service lifetime of about ten years, but over the ensuing decades many have developed stubborn problems which can be increasingly difficult to resolve without spending significant money with a competent technician. Most of the F meter prisms are now in their final death throes (if they even turn on at all),  the DP1 and DP11  for F2 have held up much better but many have become twitchy or have range issues at the low end. 

When brand new, the DP1/DP11 could give reliable readings down to around EV1 (f/1.4 at 1 sec at ISO 100), tho that was really pushing it: EV2 was the practical limit unless you had a really perfect specimen.. By the 1990s, they had aged to the point where the very bottom end developed inconsistencies, with a realistic new low end limit of roughly EV3. By the mid-2000s, many became flakier still: depending on condition of the ring resistor and CdS cells, the low end could fall out entirely. The classic Nikon/Nikkormat meter design employed a pair of CdS cells flanking the eyepiece and aimed at the focus screen: it is not uncommon for one of the two CdS cells to expire, which can give the appearance of a still-functioning meter (hiding some problems).

The ring resistor can sometimes be revived with a good cleaning, but if badly worn it may need to be replaced. Dead CdS cells must be replaced. Unfortunately spare parts have long since been depleted: a malfunctioning DP1 or DP11 effectively becomes a non-metering prism for most owners. If you're willing to spend the money and have patience for a long repair wait, a handful of dedicated boutique Nikon technicians have had small batches of custom new ring resistors and CdS cells manufactured so they can restore a DP1/DP11 to fully operational condition.

Whether its worth the expense is another question: some of us found it more practical and cost-effective to move on to the newer DP3 or DP12 prisms with modern silicon blue meter cells. Their LED readout is not as classic as ye olde needle display, but it gets the job done and is visible even in a pitch black cave. Helpful, since these prisms can quickly/accurately read down to available darkness (EV -2, i.e. 8 seconds at F/1.4 at ISO 100). The DP3/DP12 can develop electronics or ring resistor issues different from the DP1/DP11, but that isn't common so you are much more likely to find a good working example of DP3/DP12. You will almost always pay a lower price if you look for the complete camera (F2SB for a DP3, F2AS for a DP12): sellers ask almost as much money for the meter prisms by themselves.

Edited May 26, 2023 by orsetto