What lens for Large Group photos on a 5D Please help!

[h_._jm]

<p>Sorry to hijack photo.net and post 2 questions in a row..<br>

But this is important for a graduation ceremony in 2 weeks time.<br>

Here is the dilemma:<br>

I shot a group photo of our cohort for our last year of college, nothing formal something we students organized.<br>

Done by 2 people me and a colleague.</p>

<p>I used a 5D (FF) 12.8 MP, and a 24-70L on a tripod at 70mm<br>

My colleague used 7000D (Nikon APS-C) 16MP with a prime lens might have been a 50mm lens </p>

<p>Her photos of the group were MUCH better colour, being brighter too and clearer. I wasn't happy expecting better from a FF. But I thought about it and I realized one major point. for me at 70 mm I ended up cropping a lot that each group picture was roughly 7-9 MP's! <br>

Other thing is I heard somewhere before to get the sharpest lens and definitely a prime if possible for group shots. So wouldn't my Canon 100 Macro be a much better lens for the task than any of the zoom lenses I have?<br>

My lenses are: 17-40, 24-70, 35L, 100 macro, 135L, 70-200 F4 IS.<br>

thanks people for any advice on this topic,</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>So the answer is clear, you need to get a Nikon. ;)</p>

<p>Seriously, though, aside from the "grass is greener..." syndrome, the differences may have been in what was done to the image either automatically in the camera settings (e.g., "neutral" vs. "sharp"), or in the post processing.<br>

I really don't think you need a new lens - by any imaginable measure your L lens should do the job. Shoot RAW and see what you can do with saturation, etc.</p>

<p>Of course, primes will often be sharper in some senses than zooms, so try a $200 or less EF 50mm f/1.8. It will satisfy your urge for something new and is not costly to acquire.</p>

[jim_mcdonald3]

<p>Hi<br>

There are so many inponderables here. How many are in shot and how will the group be arranged? Colour, brightness and sharpness can be influenced by post processing as much as original shot and certainly hardware. Can you post a sample please? I do have a 5D and commonly pair it with a 70-200 to good effect though I don't own a 24-70. Please provide a little more info.</p>

[h_._jm]

<p>Thanks except I do have the 135 and 100 for primes, just wondering if the idea of capturing group shots with Macro lenses is good because they are Very sharp is true.<br>

btw I always shoot RAW and JPEG and it's a very good idea.</p>

[craig_meddaugh]

<p>Macro lenses work just like any other lens, except the focus closer. </p>

<p>Also your 24-70 will do just fine. Given that you have to stop down for group portraits, no lens is going to have much of an advantage. </p>

[h_._jm]

<p>That's the fact that I needed that 'since I'm stopping down not much practical advantage btw lenses' thanks</p>

[matthijs]

<p>OK I read both the threads and kind of get the problem.</p>

<p>If your equipment is in good working order (nothings broken or out of operational parameters) the equipment is not the problem.</p>

<p>Though you might need a flashgun in certain situations. (if you don't use one already...)</p>

<p>So what's left is you.</p>

<p>Sorry, but I can't say this in another way without the possibility of you missing the point.</p>

<p>The good news is of course that you can learn. You could even ask the other shooter who took such nice pictures.<br>

Just don't ask gear questions, ask technique questions, like:</p>

<ul>

<li>How do you separate your models from the background so nicely?</li>

<li>How do you use the light to get such nice (skin)tones?</li>

<li>How would you take this shot?</li>

<li>See this picture of mine? How would you have taken it?</li>

</ul>

<p>A number of these questions can also be asked on the photo.net fora and in the critique forum.<br>

Plus I'd think you might want to wander through the wedding and event sections. There's a lot to read and learn.</p>

<p>In my experience a photographer who pays attention gets better all the time. It's just that there are times when (s)he doesn't notice it him(her)self.</p>

<p>Hope this helps,</p>

<p>Matthijs.</p>

<p> </p>

[peter_j2]

<p>There is no need to buy another lens. Set your 24-70/2.8 at 50mm. Practice at smaller f-stops and lighting before the big shoot.</p>

[jdebever]

<p>i think this is the key: <em>for me at 70 mm I ended up cropping a lot that each group picture was roughly 7-9 MP's!</em> <br />If you have to crop : you either need to get closer or need to use a longer lens.<br>

use the 70-200, and if 100 gives the right results withour cropping, you can switch to the macro.<br>

but first GET CLOSER.</p>

[William Michael]

<blockquote>

<p><strong><em>"just wondering if the idea of capturing group shots with Macro lenses is good because they are Very sharp is true."</em></strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes.<br />And for large prints very good.<br>

<br />I recently bought and use the EF50/2.5 mainly for that purpose. (on a 5D), previously I used the EF50F/1.4 and was happy but I am ecstatic with the new 50mm lens.<br>

100mm is too long on a 5D (and on APS-C) for the "traditional" Large Group Portrait. <br />The 35 is very good also but one has to be a little careful if shooting from an elevated position, which is often the case if the group is 50+.<br>

Not knowing the precise shooting scenario - I would have initially defaulted to use the 35L given the description: <em>"I shot a group photo of our cohort for our last year of college, nothing formal something we students organized."</em><br>

If I had used the 24 to 70 it certainly would not have been set at either extreme of the zoom (likely the poorest position for best IQ), but rather at about 45mm: and certainly not over 50mm, for reasons of shooting distance and thus Perspective and Communication and Control – factors to which I have already alluded.</p>

<p>WW</p>

[William Michael]

<blockquote>

<p>"There is no need to buy another lens. Set your 24-70/2.8 at 50mm. Practice at smaller f-stops <em><strong>and lighting </strong></em>before the big shoot."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, I agree with this, too.</p>

<p>WW</p>

[vinh]

<p>There are a number of things here...</p>

<p>First of all, you were both using relatively comparable focal lengths. A 50mm lens on a D7000 equates to roughly 75mm on your 5D. The difference between 70mm and 75mm is not significant. To get similar results, you would only have to step in a little closer when framing. </p>

<p>Although the picture is somewhat complicated by the fact that the D7000 has a 100% viewfinder and your 5D has a 96% viewfinder accuracy. I.e. 4% of your final image was not in your original composition as seen from the viewfinder. To make up for this, you should compose tightly in the viewfinder and expect that some extra space will appear at the edges of the final image.</p>

<p>Furthermore, the D7000 has a mucher newer sensor with better color sensitivity than the 5D, as well as an extra 3-4MP. While not a lot, in a group photo, extra resolution can mean extra detail in the individual faces. You cannot make up for this with another lens. If you expect more, it's time to buy a new camera, e.g. 5D Mark II.<br>

While the 50mm primes are some of Nikon's sharpest lenses, I am doubtful that the 24-70mm is a problem. I would consider a camera upgrade before a lens upgrade in your case.</p>

<p>To summarize... you are at a sensor disadvantage, using technology 5 years older than the one in your colleague's camera. To minimize the difference, you need to frame more tightly and avoid cropping--this eats into your resolution, which is already lower than your colleague's.</p>

[paulie_smith1]

<p>What do you consider a large group? 50? 150? More?<br>

Why not fill the frame and shoot in sections and stitch them together after the fact? I have done this successfully with the 1DMkIIn and when the group understands what you are doing they are usually cooperative. Makes it easier to replace people with eyes closed and whatnot as I do at least three passes of the group.<br>

Other than that I shoot it on 5x7 or 8x10 film and enlarge from that.</p>

 

[h_._jm]

<p>Thanks Paulie for the photo stitch suggestion, Our cohort is almost 100 people!</p>

[Ian Taylor]

<p>Personally I never use primes for group shots. Too many variables in terms of group size and distance from the group. <br /> What I do at weddings is get up higher than the group, ideally on a step ladder. Then get the group in front of me with the 24-70, or 17-40 if it's a big group and I can't get far enough back. Then I zoom to crop in the camera. Stop down the lens as much as possible and focus roughly one third of the way into the group. <br /> <a href="http://iantaylor.carbonmade.com/projects/60264#42">Like this.</a><br>

But everyone has their own way of doing things, this just works for me.</p>

 

[Ian Taylor]

<p>Sorry, <a href="http://iantaylor.carbonmade.com/projects/60264#34">correct link here</a>.</p>

[hjoseph7]

<p>I usually have no problems getting sharp well saturated shots with my 24-70mm lens, but I got to admit, images made with my 50mm($99) f1.8 are just as sharp if not sharper and show more contrast. When it's convenient I often use my 50mm for group shots. That or my 16-35 f2.8 rather than the 24-70mm. </p>

[hakhtar]

I have used 28mm from 17-55mm at f2.8 under room lights with satisfactory outcomes!<div></div>

[h_._jm]

<p>Husain this pic is amazing. Can I ask if you shot it JPEG or RAW and edited? and if so which software. Lastly when you shoot such a pic do you use TV or AV setting and which variable do you set to what value? Im assuming you do apeture priority at some aperture around F8 and maybe ISO 400 and neutral exposure..<br>

thanks</p>

[hakhtar]

RAW in 'P'' mode ISO 400 - IS allowed me 1/30 at f2.8 editing in PS.

 

Out of all equipment I have (5D, 5Dll, f4 lenses, flash etc), most of my indoor captures of community events are by 500D + 17-55mm or 5Dll + 24mm f1.4 under available light - like the one below!<div></div>

[h_._jm]

<p>Very nice</p>