Film for Fuji 617

[sunilmendiratta]

<p>Hi All,<br>

I am renting Fuji 617 for the long July 4th weekend. I shoot digitally but now i want to take coastal shots and my digital camera with panoramic software fall short as that gives problem while shooting water.<br>

I want to rent this panoramic camera and try my hands on it. I heard fuji velvia 50 is a good choice for landscape work. I also heard that slide film is better than negative film but have very limited dynamic range.<br>

Now i am requesting you for suggestion</p>

<p>1) Is 120 fuji velvia 50 slide film is the best for the landscape work.<br>

2) While shooting with this camera do i need focussing aid.<br>

3) Is slide film dynamic range is less than digital and compensation is required?</p>

<p>Regards,<br>

sunil</p>

 

[John Crowe]

<p>I highly recommend Velvia 50 but you may need to bracket a bit until you get used to it. Use your digital camera and histogram to help determine proper exposure for the film. On DSLRs I tend to underexposure which is not a great idea for Velvia, so I know I would compensate to more exposure.</p>

<p>Be very careful with water as the reflections can cause underexposure. Again verify exposures with your DSLR first.</p>

[mark_lewis2]

<p>Velvia, but shoot a few test rolls as the stated ISO and the real ISO can be VERY different. Back when RVP was the only thing in my bag, I rated it at 32 but I've not shot it in a while.</p>

[sunilmendiratta]

<p>I can meter with my DSLR and then take the same setting to slide film. Problem is my DSLR is having 200 as base setting it goes to 100 as well but not to 50.<br>

So can i assume 100 to 50 is 1 stop?</p>

[steve m smith]

<blockquote>

<p>So can i assume 100 to 50 is 1 stop?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You can.... because it is!</p>

[peter_a._york]

<p>1. Not necessarily. In my opinion Velvia 50 can be quite tricky because of its limited dynamic range. You will get detail approximately +/- 1.5-2 stops, which is terrible with respect to the current digital offerings. Others do not like the over-saturated colors with this film. I prefer it in flat, even light, though I generally use Provia much more often. <br>

The current negative films are outstanding and probably sharper than even velvia 50 when scanning. Some have a dynamic range of approximately 12 stops. <br>

I may be off here, but your questions suggest that you have not shot much film. I would suggest doing so before the 4th to get acquainted with a couple of the common offerings. Provia is my mainstay, but I also use Velvia, Porta, and others. Each is different with respect to color palette.<br>

</p>

[steve_rasmussen]

<p>6x17 is such a long frame that 220 film is a better choice. It is hard to find in Velvia 50 and 100f though. The Velvia 100f is a great landscape film and doesn't have the magenta cast of the regular Velvia 100. Go with slide film. Negative film is ok if you are printing it yourself but labs seem to have a problem translating the negative to the print and reflecting closely what you saw in the scene. There is a reason why publishers will not accept negative film for landscape publications.</p>

[sunilmendiratta]

<p>Thanks a lot for all of your suggestions. Yes i have not shot with film at all, so that is why i am looking for suggestions.<br>

If anybody used the same camera then i have question, in viewfinder the view i see will come to slide or that is not the case.</p>

<p>Regards,<br>

Sunil</p>

[sunilmendiratta]

<p>One more question?<br>

Do we need to load film in dark place or on the field is ok?</p>

[peter_a._york]

<p>Loading film in the field is fine... try to do so in the shade but this is not critical.<br>

You need to run a search on photo.net on how to expose for transparency or negative films. That should be a useful crash course.</p>

[david_henderson]

<p>IMO it is expecting a bit much to take on board a totally new camera and a new contrasty film with very limited dynamic range and expect to get good results over a weekend. Bracketing the exposures is not terribly easy since you only have 4 shots to a roll so its going to cost you a fortune and you're going to spend the weekend reloading. After a dozen years with Velvia i've learned that I really need grads to reduce scene brightness ratios- have you got these?</p>

<p>So here's the thing. Velvia with a 617 can produce some very nice images, but probably not first time out for both film and camera. You'll find getting exposures right much easier with colour neg film, which has about double the dynamic range of Velvia and more than digital. So if you can expose properly with digital you should manage to expose neg film OK. It does bring you another problem- which is how to see what you've got and you have no experience in assessing negatives. Two solutions- get the negs scanned and view them in a screen. Or get some small proof prints made when you get the films developed. </p>

<p>Suggest that you'll find 220 too hard to find and maybe to get processed. Change films in the shade, always, and make sure they wind really tight when you unload and before you apply the sticky paper. </p>

[andylynn]

Agreed. Portra would be my choice. You don't get the transparency but with skillful scanning and processing you do

get excellent color.

[charles_wood]

<p>I owned a G617 for years and I can offer a couple of additional thoughts.<br>

First, the optical viewfinder is misleading. What you see with your eye will not necessarily be what you get on the frame. I found that fairly regularly the image was misframed with vertical errors. That led me to not only bracket exposures but vertical framing as well. This does get very expensive in terms of film and processing.<br>

Also, the lens on the G617 is much sharper at F13 and above. I typically shot at F16-22, so slow shutter speeds are the name of the game with Velvia. You'll definitely need a tripod and a shutter release cable. The shutter release on the camera is very stiff although it is possible to use the trip lever on the lens, if you're careful.<br>

I'm in agreement with other posters, Portra or some type of print film is a good way to start. You'll have more dynamic range, higher ISO to work with, and a better chance of some usable images.</p>

[bjoele]

<p>It's getting close to the 4th now, but since it's probably not free to rent that camera I would suggest that you actually buy a film camera and a few rolls of films and start practicing. A working 35mm camera and lens can be had for next to nothing these days, and if you already use a DSLR like Canon or Nikon you probably already have working lenses. If you can find a medium format camera it would be even better so you get a bit used to handling roll films when loading and unloading, but the 35mm cameras gives you more exposures to experiment with on each roll (film and development costs are about the same for 35mm film and 120 film).<br>

Take detailed notes of how you measured, and what cammera settings you used for each frame. When I do this personally, I both use the matrix metering of my DSLR camera (used as a light meter) but you should also switch over to spot meter mode (and use a tele lens) to take specific measurements of different areas of your subject, and note how many stops darker or lighter they are compared to your exposure. This way you'll get some experience on how the film behaves. :)<br>

This of course only makes sense before the 4th if you actually have a lab with quick turn-around time so you can learn from the experience before the 4th.</p>

[sunilmendiratta]

<p>Can somebody explain me how to use GND with this camera as i can not see the effect from viewfinder?</p>

<p>Thanks,<br>

Sunil</p>

[greg_campbell1]

<p>Sunil, <br>

With all respect, it sounds like you don't have a very good grasp of metering principles. You're going to be upset if all your film comes back with blown highlights. I suggest you shoot the much more forgiving Ektar100 in that big camera. Yes, it's a negative film; you won't get those glorious 6x17 transparencies on the light table. On the other hand, the film has many more stops of dynamic range, and produces very good colors. Assuming that you'll wind up scanning everything, and then doing some digital post-processing, you could shoot just about any portrait negative film with great success. </p>

<p>If you do want to try slide, I'd go with Provia 100F or one of the equally excellent Kodak E100 films. These have a little more range than Velvia, but will still produce wonderful E6 colors. </p>

<p>Regarding exposure, dynamic range, etc. Look up the old Adams book, 'The Negative,' at the local library. It will explain everything in a very clear, concise manner. ('The Camera' isn't a bad read either!)</p>

[greg_campbell1]

<p>p.s.</p>

<p>As others have mentioned, a 6x17 isn't exactly an ideal 'beginner camera' for someone who hasn't ever used film. (I seriously think you need to re-consider. It's going to bite you!)</p>

<p>At least consider 'downgradong' to something like an X-Pan or one of the smaller Noblex cameras that eats 35mm film. This will reduce your costs, reduce setup and viewfinder issues, etc., while still giving you a panoramic image.</p>

[sunilmendiratta]

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I get your point(i am ok with metering) but is there any method to use GND effectively on this camera as i cant see through the lens.<br>

will singh ray filter for cokin P-series cover the lens?<br>

Regards,<br>

Sunil</p>

[charles_wood]

<p>Your only option would be to rent the camera with the optional focus screen. This screen fits on the backside with the cover open. It requires you to set up your shot and if you want to use a split density filter, you would have to likely tape it to the lens barrel to keep it in place. The screen will not present a particularly bight image as the 105mm fixed lens is F8 wide open, as I recall. You'll need a loupe to check focus, then once the shot is set up and locked down, you'll have to remove the screen and load the film. You'll be better off using 120 rather than 220 if you're planning on going through this procedure for each image you want to shoot. You probably won't want to be dedicating a roll of 220 (8 frames) and the processing cost, to each image.</p>

[uconnjames]

<p>Velvia is great. Just be very careful on exposure because its latitude is very narrow. You need first make sure the shutter speeds are accurate; then meter the scene correctly; use filters (e.g. GND) to compensate in contrasty scenes (with a 617 rangefinder, it might be hard to use any filters though).</p>

[andylynn]

<p>Yeah, given the difficulty in using GND filters and that it's your first time on this camera and coastal shooting can give you very contrasty scenes - I'm looking at the bottom of the page and it's showing me <a href="../photo/12246150">this photo of yours</a>, for example, which would be difficult to expose under those circumstance - I'd use a forgiving film. My mind keeps going to Portra 400, either the 400NC or the no-letters 400. The negatives are so large, unless you intend to get pro lab scans done and print large posters, I don't think you need a slower film.</p>

[sunilmendiratta]

<p>I want to shoot slide and i am ok if i dont get the desired results. i will take it as experience.....</p>

[david_henderson]

<p>It is possible to try slide film with a camera that doesn't eat 120 film at the rate of 4 shots per roll, and where you can position a grad decently without guessing. If you keep the camera for long enough to understand whether the metering is accurate (if it isn't you can often fix via compensation) then that is going to help a lot too.<br>

Can't help feeling that you are combining two objectives best dealt with separately in the first instance. If you want to see what a panoramic camera can do, then you need to use a film that is likely to give some decent results. If you want to learn to use slide film you need to use a camera that allows you to bracket and use grads accurately and gives you a chance of more than one iteration without costing a fortune in rental or film/processing. <br>

All the photographers I know who used a Fuji 617 ( think Charle Waite, Lee Frost) were proficient Velvia users before they started with panoramics. </p>

[sunilmendiratta]

<p>Thanks a lot for all your suggestions.</p>

<p>Regards,<br>

Sunil</p>

[dirk_dom1]

<p>Hi!<br>

I use a Fuji GX 617, my first experience with Velvia was using this camera.<br>

Do a spot metering on the highlights, and overexpose that metering by 1 1/2 stops, and you'll be fine. For instance, if the meter says, on the highlights, to use 1/125 f/11, then use 1/125 f/5.6 and a half, or 1/60 f/8 and a half. You get the idea.<br>

If the lens has a ND grad filter screwed on, (That's a filter which has a grey center to make the underexposure of the lens in the corners go away because the lens is wide angle and the light path to the corners longer etc etc) you need to set your meter to 25 ASA if you use Fuji Velvia 50: the filter darkens by one stop. Or you can try to remember opening up one stop if you leave your meter at 50.<br>

I use Fuji Velvia 100F, that film has a little less color saturation than Fuji Velvia 50, but I really like the extra stop. I think it has plenty color. Everyone says Velvia 50 is much better, and they're probably right.<br>

I shoot a lot at night with my GX617, and a very major advantage of the 100F film is that with minutes long exposures it has no color shifts or reciprocity failure at all.<br>

Shooting panoramic is marvellous, go for it!<br>

By the way, don't bother getting 220 film, I shoot 120 all the time. Loading is easy, takes about a minute. Be sure to waste a roll practicing it before you go out there. Take one empty wind up spool with you in case you drop and lose it while loading.<br>

I usually bracket one stop up and down, using my shutter time.<br>

I let my f/stop depend on the depth of field. The scale is on top of the lens. I'm one stop more conservative than the DOF scale says, for instance when it says f/16 I use f/22. That's because when going to the limits with DOF, the scale setting makes for slightly fuzzy images.<br>

If you don't need depth of field, stop down two stops. (If it's an f/8 lens, go for f/16) But the lens is plenty sharp even wide open, don't worry.<br>

Use a tripod, and a cable realease. Don't forget to transport the film before the next exposure!!!<br>

You can use a (D) SLR with spot metering as a light meter. I have a Minolta spotmeter.<br>

Enjoy your panoramic experience!!!<br>

One last thing: be careful about lining up your horizon, as it's a long frame!!<br>

Dirk.</p><div></div>