Medium Format Colection - where to start - which to restore and use?

[tim_bury]

 

 

<blockquote >I recently received a few MF cameras.<br /><br />I'm open to any comments and thoughts, experiences, etc. that you may have.<br /><br />I'll probably try all the gear, but included my initial thoughts below, which may change if any of you have comments or experiences to share, and of course once I start using the gear (I picked up 5 rolls of Ektar 100, I hope that's good stuff). I've ordered seal kits from Jon Goodman for all except the Rollei's, I am considering sending those in for CLA. I doubt I will keep them all, so I am looking fora ny insight which ones to put the ones and invest the time into.<br /><br /><strong>Pentax 6 x 7</strong> and the following lenses:<br />105mm f/2.4 Takumar<br />135mm f/4 Macro Takumar<br />165mm f/2.8<br /><br />Intersting, kind of large for what I want to lug around in addition to my digital gear. But what about the potential results, is this a "really" good set of gear that I should consider more seriously?<br /><br /><br /><strong>Mamiya RB67</strong> and the following lenses:<br />Mamiya Sekor 90mm f/3.8<br />Mamiya Sekor 180mm f/4.5<br />Also, a few backs, one a Polaroid.<br /><br />A little bigger than I think I want to work with. But, is this a "classic"?<br /><br /><br /><strong>Mamiya M645 1000s</strong> with:<br />Mamiya Sekor C 80mm f/2.8<br />a bracket/grip to make hand holding easier.<br /><br />This one looks like a nice size, and format to work with. Too bad only one lens, but that is a standard focal length for MF, right?<br /><br /><br /><strong>Rollei TLR 3,5F</strong> - I received two of these. One of them in Excellent+ condition. The other a bit worn but think a CLA and care will clean it up real nice.<br /><br />This looks to me like the most fun to use. A few accessories (pistol grip, a panning pivot thing, hoods). Should the mint one be saved and not used (collectors item?). I suppose I'll run a roll through it at least. The meters seem accurate on both.</blockquote>

<blockquote ><br /></blockquote>

<blockquote >I would appreciate any thoughts or experiences you might have with this gear.<br /></blockquote>

 

 

[ellis_vener_photography]

<p>I have shot with most of those cameras.<br>

Keep the Pentax and its lenses. They are excellent and some cases out perform the similar Zeiss lenses for Rollei and Hasselblad SLR cameras. The one downside is that for shutter speeds of 1/30th down to 1 second you really neeed to use mirror lock up and a cable release. I did a huge print project with Pentax 67 gear: prints from 16 x 20 up to 30 x 40 inch with astonishing clarity and crispness. The SMC Takumars are outstanding.<br>

Keep the Rollei 3.5 TLRs - my fondness for these cameras is half sentiment and half quality and handling related. I also have two of them. <br>

You could not pay me enough to ever use the clunky RB67 system ever again . It is not a classic. </p>

[jean_yves_mead]

The M645, however, is a nice little wakabout camera, especially with a waist-level finder. Lenses and accessories for it are cheap and easy to find.

[chris_waller]

<p>I have an RB67 and I love it. Yes, it's heavy, but mine is over twenty years old and still going.</p>

[greg_jones1]

<p>Depends of course on what you want to use them for. If you want a carry-around camera, forget the RB67. While it is great and I own an RZ67, taking them for a walk or a hike makes you dislike them. Do you need 6X7? Do you need leaf shutters (RB67) or will the focal plane shutter in the Pentax work for you? I just had a Mamiya 645 1000S given to me with an 80mm and a 150mm lens and a metering prism-excellent shape and I could not beat the price. I owned one once before years back and had forgotten what a great camera they are. Point is, it will produce excellent images, is ergonomically easy to handle, lighter weight for carry-around considerations, and the lenses and accessories are at give-away prices.<br>

I have two Rollei TLRs and love them to death, but they are limited by one lens. But it is a great lens, to be sure.<br>

My two cents is to keep the Pentax if 6X7 larger image is important to you, and the Mamiya 645 if the smaller negative works for your needs. No point in selling the Mamiya 645, you probably would not get $100 for it.</p>

[d_purdy]

<p>The Rolleis are potentially the most valuable. If you feel good about them I would sell the Pentax gear and use that money for CLAs. Sell the RB67 and use that money for another 645 lens. And I beg to disagree with Ellis, Pentax has never made a lens that is as good as a Zeiss Planar or Schneider Xenotar. My opinion comes from having both systems including 7 Pentax 67 lenses.</p>

[dhbebb]

<p>All the cameras are good in their own way - the Mamiya 645 does not offer anything the others don't, so may be the first candidate for disposal. If you are looking for something to carry in addition to your digital gear, the Rollei TLRs have a clear advantage - you say the better one is Excellent+, which means "obvious signs of wear", by no means mint, so this sounds like a user rather than a collector's item. The other Rollei is a "bit worn", you say - exterior paint loss is unimportant, any scratches/mold on the lens, dimness in the viewfinder or stiffness of focusing (which may mean the rails on which the front panel extends are bent) may cost more than the camera is worth to fix. Neither the Pentax or the RB67 are collector's items, they are pro workhorses. lenses of both are good, people prefer the Pentax if they want to hand-hold or work at eye level, downsides are slow flash snyc and high vibration level. The natural home of an RB67 is on a tripod in a studio, it has interchangeable magazines if you need to shoot a lot of pictures fast (e.g. fashion work). I would keep just one of these outifts on the basis of which one you feel more comfortable with.</p>

[rashed_s]

<p>It is some times too hard to use all what you have, I used my RZ67 only once since I bought it 2 years back, the Leica M6 once also, the RB67 never used it for the last 5 years, the Rollei 3.5 also never used and so on, just some times buying them for the sake of having them.</p>

[tim_bury]

<p>Thank you so much for all these responses.<br>

You are giving me some excellent suggestions and things to consider. It makes me want to keep all of them! I'll probably sell the RB67 for sure (after I replace the seals, that should be a fun weekend project).<br>

I'm real interested to know how to "classify" the Rollei that is in better shape. One shot below, more at the link, does that tell you anything about what you would rate it as, how much is it worth? "Mint", "Excellent", etc. Is there a mroe appropriate place for me to ask that?<br>

More Images: <a href="http://myfotoguy.zenfolio.com/p195379557/e1ab54eb3">http://myfotoguy.zenfolio.com/p195379557/e1ab54eb3</a></p>

<p><img src="http://myfotoguy.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v25/p14226071-4.jpg" alt="" /></p>

[t._kim]

<p>It definitely depends on your shooting style and subject matter. Studio, street, landscapes, portrait, tripod...each system has its own strengths and weaknesses. For an all-around camera, the 645 format is hard to beat unless we're talking 645 rangefinders. However, IMO, the "slight" gain in neg size isn't worth the added bulk/weight of the M645...(but this is an argument for another time and place). This is an aspect where rangefinders really shine.</p>

<p>Of your choices, I'd pick the Rolleis for a number of reasons - square format, silent, and NOT battery dependent. Also with many late® model Rolleiflexes, you'll never have a dead camera because it's often financially worthwhile to keep them running. Moreover, accessories, albeit expensive (especially Bay II), also retain their value as well. With that said, TLR's aren't for everyone and it may take a while for you to realize its versatility.</p>

<p>In the end, use what's comfortable. There is no perfect camera.</p>

<p>As for your Rollei (pretty!), I cringe when I see mint or minty. It's just not realistic for a 40+ year old camera unless there are absolutely NO marks on it. Possible but unlikely. EX+ is as as far as I'd go.</p>

[jim_gardner4]

<p>I would so keep the Rollei and use it. Mint or not, it was made to take photographs.</p>

[ilkka]

<p>All are good, and somewhat classic cameras. The Rollei obviously the most classic. The main difference comes from intended use. To me the Pentax is mainly an outdoor landscape camera, but your lens selection is a bit limited for that use. The big Mamiya is clearly a studio portrait camera, and you have some good lenses for that. The Rollei and 645 Mamiya are more portable and therefore handy for travel, outdoor portraits etc. 80 is a good normal focal length but depending on what you use it for, you might want something a bit shorter or a bit (or a lot) longer for the 645. Since you have them, why not try them all and then decide which one you like best for the kind of pictures you like to make. Nobody else can decide that for you.</p>

[robert_landrigan]

<p>Keep the Pentax, i finally got mine a month or so back and have never spent better money. Much happier with it than Hassleblad, which is unfair, but it's more in line with how i want cameras to operate:) The Rb is a bloody nightmare unless you're shooting on a camera stand in a studio, so selling it is a good idea.</p>

<p>The Rollei and 645 are a little harder, as teh 645 is kinda portable, but honestly, unless you really like 645 I'd sell that as well. The Rollei - well, sell one, keep one:)</p>

[steve_levine]

<p>All of these cameras are considered "classics". And are all capable of professional results. Stopped down a few stops, all of the glass you mention is of the highest quality too.<br>

The only caveat is the focal plane shuttered Pentax's focal plane shutter. These cameras have very large moving parts, that are prone to wearing out every few thousand exposures. If yours is at the end of it's cycle, you could be looking at a rebuild. As much as I love the P67's, I don't think they make great used cameras. There is also trouble with both the gears (plastic or nylon), and the film advance mechanism. The advance lever never seems to have enough leverage to pull all that film, and cock the mother of all shutters.</p>

<p>The smaller FP shutters on the Mamiya 645, seem more robust as they age than the P67's. But this is just shear size difference.</p>

<p>The RB and the Rollei, of course both have leaf shutters. Which generally seem to work better when old when compared to similar vintaged focal plane shutters.</p>

[steve_rasmussen]

<p>Contrary to popular belief, the film advance mechanism/gears on the Pentax 67 are not all that delicate. If one insists on advancing the film like a mad man, you could run into problems. I have owned this system since 1988 and never had any issues in this area. I do shoot a lot, as I use this camera professionally and have put 15,000 frames through my original body. My other two bodies (Honeywell and Asahi) have around 10,000 frames on them and are doing fine. My only problem involved the MLU, where my mirror would not return on my oldest body. That needed to be sent away for a fix.<br>

No medium format camera is without problems but I suggest giving the Pentax a road test and see what you think. It is a proven system.</p>

[photo5]

<p>Rollei wins for me. I had the beast, the RB67, for a few years, and actually enjoyed using it very much. The quality of the lenses was superb, the camera never failed while I used it, and the rotating back was great as I used it on a tripod most of the time. But I wouldn't want one now. I'd rather shoot with the Pentax 67 if I had to choose one of the two.<br>

Mamiya 1000S is not known for good lenses, and I'd sell that one quickly.<br>

My favorite 6x4.5cm medium format camera system is the Pentax 645. You don't see many for sale used because I think people hang on to them!</p>

[tim_bury]

<p>You all have given me great suggestions and good advice. I am definitely going to keep and shoot the Rolleis (at lest one of them). I' just packaged them up to send them off to Krimar Photo in NJ for estimates.</p>

<p>As far as the others, I plan to use and try them all (maybe not the RB67, I am just not sure I want to to shoot with a camera that big, I really have no need. But I may just keep it to have around as a conversation piece.<br>

I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but I ordered seal kits for the Mamiya's and the Pentax 6x7 (from Jon Goodman). Is that a fairly straightforward job? Any tips or advice? I understand they come with detailed instructions, so that mist be all I need.</p>

<p>A lot was said that it depends on my use of the cameras. Mainly landscape and cityscape. Once I get some experience under my belt with the basics of the cameras and I see my results I may do a couple portraits. Maybe use the Rollie's in everyday situations for some fun (family, zoo, etc).</p>

<p>I don't really need long focal lengths, and I have a Nikon D300 and decent range of pro quality lenses for daily use and longer reach.</p>

<p>I am really enjoying reading your responses, thank you all!</p>

<p> </p>

[steve m smith]

<blockquote>

<p>Should the mint one be saved and not used (collectors item?).</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No. Something which was built to be used should always be used. I see no point in collecting something and not using it.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I am definitely going to keep and shoot the Rolleis (at lest one of them).</p>

</blockquote>

<p>See answer above!</p>

[greg_jones1]

<p>I have to disagree on the statement that Mamiya 645 are not known to be great lenses. I think they are indeed great lenses-maybe not on a level with Zeiss, but they are sharp and more than suffiently contrasty. And I own a suite of Zeiss lenses for my Hasselblads, Mamiya 7 equipment, Rolleiflex 2.8 Planars and Xenotars, etc. I have used them all and I print my own negatives so I have very much seen the results that all of them can produce. Dont toss away the Mamiya 1000S based on lens quality, for heavens sake. Maybe other reasons, perhaps, but not because of that. Again, you wont get but a pittance for it anyway if you try to sell it.</p>

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>I have to disagree about the lens quality of the Mamiya 1000s. The standard 80mm lens is about as good as anything else you'll find, after all it's a classic 6 element double-gauss design - a la Zeiss Planar etc. The 645 format also offers good film economy, and that's something to consider as film costs soar.</p>

<p>The thing to check with the 1000s body is the condition of the light seals. For reasons best known to themselves Mamiya decided to use a type of foam that turns to black goo over the years. Replacing the seals with neoprene is tedious but only has to be done once. My several metal-bodied M645s (Js, Ms and 1000ses) will still be working when I'm long gone, I have no doubt.</p>

[michael_josefsson]

<p>I have a Mamiya 645 with that 80/2.8 lens. I find it a bit too narrow and have found a Sekor C 45/2.8 which makes a world of a difference, very wide angle, suitable for my landscaping ambitions. I also got the grip, which I now consider a necessity unless I use the tripod.<br /> About the quality of the Sekor C lenses: I have an adapter for the lenses to my 5D mk II and have compared them to the 24-105/4L on that body and they are on a par with that lens anyway. Even pixelpeeping in the corners I have found no significant differences.</p>

[russ_kerlin]

<p>All I use is an RB67. I haven't used the others, but I absolutely love it. Yes, it's big, bulky, and heavy, but it's built like a tank and very durable. Plus, if you are shooting anything bigger than 6x4.5, you really should be thinking about a tripod anyway (IMHO). An obvious exception to this would be TLRs since they are easy to hand hold.</p>

<p>Anyway, like others have said, it really depends on what you like to take pictures of and your shooting style. But, don't be too quick to dismiss the RB67.</p>

 

[dana_bartholomew]

<p>I have a Rolleicord and a Pentax 6X7, with a wide, medium and long lens. Love each of them. but it's the Rollei that gets weekly use, because it's light, portable and silent -- and surprisingly great on the street. The Pentax, on the other hand, is the muthah of all SLRs, and listening to its mirror slap is like the thump of a Krupps gun -- utterly fantastic. But hefting the 6X7 on the street or up a hill is a labor of love. There is a huge difference in visual perspective between a TLR and eye-level camera. And of the two, the Rollei is more difficult to focus, and requires special attachments (Rolleinar) for close-ups.</p>

[tim_bury]

<p>A case has been made for each of these cameras :)<br>

<br />After I replace the seals using Jon Goodman's kits and instructions, and get the Rollei's back from Krimar Photo Shop the fun will begin.<br>

<br /> I'm not sure if I mentioned it, all my serious photography experience to date has been with a digital SLR setup (Nikon D300). So photography, exposure, etc is not new, but film is. I am REALLY looking forward to exploring photography in a new way.<br>

<br /> I am somewhat anxious to get the first roll shot and returned, since I am new to this. I had hoped to find something like MPIX (they only take 35mm) where I can send in, pay for processing, and only order prints of what I want after I view them online. I'm probably too worried about messing up the first roll, but I guess that's how you learn. So, I am looking at using North Coast Photographic Services, they seem to offer some good options for processing and scanning. Does anyone have any experience in this area to share (or should that be a new thread).<br>

<br /> Once I get some results, is this Medium Format the area of the forums I should share them?</p>

[tim_bury]

<blockquote><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=4578502">Dana Bartholomew</a> , Apr 17, 2011; 12:53 p.m.

 

<p>I have a Rolleicord and a Pentax 6X7, with a wide, medium and long lens. Love each of them. but it's the Rollei that gets weekly use, because it's light, portable and silent -- and surprisingly great on the street.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Thanks for the input, Dana. Do you use the meter on the Rollei, do you find it to be accurate, or do you use a hand held meter to check? I have a Pentax Spotmeter V, and a Gossen Ultra Pro I could use. That or my Digital SLR to as a reference. I guess the meters themselves will be accurate to factory specs after Krikor is finished with them, but just curious in general how that meter does (other than the normal compensations I need to make for any scene requiring some kind of exposure compensation due to meters being fooled by lots of white, dark or reflective surfaces).</p>

<p>For anyone, in general do you use the meters on board, or some other meter or digital camera for reference. I will probably figure this out as I go, but would enjoy and appreciate any collective wisdom on what folks do, or where to start.</p>