paulo_fonseca1 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 So, here's something that has been annoying me more and more, recently. I am an amateur photographer with no intention whatsoever of becoming a professional or charging for my photos. I take only casual photos (travel, family, events) primarily for myself and for my close family, but I try as much as I can to do it properly both technically and aesthetically. I eventually share photos with relatives and friends but I like to do a minimal prior work of selection and editing before I show them. I do not intend to be regarded as a master of photography, which I am not by any means, but that's pretty much my attitude towards everything I do: of course we all do crap, some more than others, but I feel bad to show them. Well, the problem is that some people happen to like some of my pictures and now they keep asking me to give them all photos that I take at some occasion, like a Christmas party or something like that. They just give me their portable USB drive and expect me to dump the contents of my memory card into it. When I try to explain that only a tiny fraction of the pictures are worthwhile and even the best ones still need some finishing, they insist on saying that I am a perfectionist, that they don't care because these are just informal snapshots anyway, that they will do their own selection, etc. Some of you must certainly be faced with this situation, so I would like to know what you guys do. On the occasions I gave the photos away, I felt bad like if someone had broken into my intimacy. When I refuse, people tend to feel offended and think that (apart from perfectionist) I am just an egoist pretentious bastard. Is there an elegant solution to this dilemma that would satisfy both parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_pierlot Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>Just tell them to take their own photos. That way, they'd be free to use them all indiscriminately.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lachaine Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>I generally don't bother bringing a camera to events involving family or friends. There is rarely a shortage of pictures from those... and often, they are up on someone's facebook thing before I can even get home. I practice my photography elsewhere.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek_kennedy Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>Im with Pierre.</p> <p>I take lots of photos, have lots of cameras, and everyone is surprised that Im the one person that showed up at 'X' event with no camera.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sunley Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>Other than maybe handing them a card with "Photographer for hire at $100 per hour if you aren't able to shoot your own photographs" or not bringing your camera. I can't think of a better response to demanding "friends and acquaintances".</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parv Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Agree with others above. Paulo, you would need to be straightforward & confident to tell whomever that they would get only those images that you deem worthy. Do that before you start shooting. I personally shoot only my immediate family for they are now (almost) conditioned not to pose anymore; all others would pose or stop talking which saps my motivation to make a photograph. I delete all the bad (technically or otherwise) ones; process some; show even a smaller selection. I do take my camera everywhere but use it only somewheres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_bellenis Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>I think the easiest way out of this - that doesn't make you stop bringing your camera to events or giving away images you'd rather not - would be to say...</p> <p>"I'm sorry, I only shoot RAW now, so you wouldn't be able to open the files. Let me send you a selection when I've gone through them and processed them."</p> <p>That way you only give them images that you want them to have, and you have time to work on them if you like. Furthermore, they can't be offended that you didn't give them something that they couldn't open anyway. BTW, it doesn't matter if you actually are shooting RAW or not, just say you are!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_flossner Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>Tell them that, as a photographer, you care about the image so you only want to release the quality ones. Ask those people whether they would go out in the city in trampled, dirty clothes with make up all over the face.<br> Send them the good images and say you deleted the others. <br> And you can ultimately refuse to be used as just a clicker and leave your camera at home.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapyke Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>If your camera has dual card slots... shoot a couple of average snap shots on one card, then flip over to the other and take the pictures you want... anyone presses you, give them the few snaps and take the rest home to work on at your leisure.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <blockquote> <p>they insist on saying that I am a perfectionist, that they don't care because these are just informal snapshots</p> </blockquote> <p>"I'm not a perfectionist but I have learned that I need to edit my photos for things that might be unflattering or unsuitable. I'll certainty send you anything remotely usable tomorrow."</p> <p>After insisting more... "I know you are anxious to share the pictures soon but I never transfer images until I review them. Even with friends. Don't worry. You aren't going to miss out on anything."<br> Then change subject.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddes Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>Some good points above</p> <p>Personally I often don't bring a camera. I am sometimes handed one, my classic response is "I don't know what to do with this". Puzzled looks may get a "it's not my camera". When I do bring a camera I take pictures as is it were an event. Using my DSLR. I shoot raw on a CF card. Any requests for pictures are simply refered to my website "in a week or so" and/or "sorry just not compatible". If I like them, I'll send them an email with the link or to everyone I can who was there. <br> On my website depending on the case, it may be freely open, or under a password I give out to the group. They can get edited and corrected low res (1000x1000) images.<br> <br /><br> Thinking about it: Having cards with my web site and email would be an improvement. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <blockquote> <p>Tell them that, as a photographer, you care about the image so you only want to release the quality ones.</p> </blockquote> <p>According to the story, that is essentially what they are being told and that has been unpersuasive. How to politefully, but firmly, say no is what's needed unless some other persuasive rationale is out there.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnw63 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>If it's just family and friends and you will never charge for them, why NOT just hand out your "rough drafts" and tell them to let you know which ones they would like to see AFTER you do all the things you need to do ? To THEM, your are being a perfectionist. Think about it. Most people just point and shoot and print or post on the web. They don't understand all the time you will spend on post production getting the photos just they way YOU want them. The general public is just not as picky as people who take it more seriously.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>Lots of different ideas apparently.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_daniel1 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I'm with John Williamson. Just give it to them and don't look back UNLESS you are indeed shooting raw. Those who would encourage you to lie about that aren't doing you any big favors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_bellenis Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>I think Paulo explained exactly why he didn't want to "just hand out his rough drafts" - it made him feel bad and as if someone had "broken into his intimacy". I think that takes that option off the table - in fact that was the whole point of his post.</p> <p>He was looking for a way to avoid handing his unedited images over, without offending anyone and without appearing to be some egotistical perfectionist or "pretentious bastard"!</p> <p>Hence my suggestion that he tells them he is shooting RAW - this stops them from wanting to put his images on their USB drive and lets him edit, select and fine tune his images in his own time. If that is a "lie" that somehow harms anyone or has any negative consequences, I am hard pushed to see it!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yog_sothoth Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>I get a lot of the same thing. You get the impression that people think that you took 100 great photos and you are only showing the few that YOU like. The problem with kids and events is that much of the time people turn, blink, have their mouth open while talking, kids are picking their nose, kids are sticking out their tongue, or some other issue. Unless you are staging the shots and directing people you are going to have a ton of outtakes. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenPapai Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p><em>"When I refuse, people tend to feel offended and think that (apart from perfectionist) I am just an egoist pretentious bastard. Is there an elegant solution to this dilemma that would satisfy both parts?"</em><br /> <em><br /></em> Possessing Basic Social Skills will get you a long way (in dealing with peoples' common requests or "demands").<br> Are you a photographer with skills or a snap shooter who couldn't care less about his/her end product? It simply comes down to that (and also explained and answered above).</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>These guys are just too polite. Start screwing around with them. Take their thumb drive and download stuff. Crappy stuff. Ooops, wrong file. Download again. Oops, wrong program. Or download some of the pics you took. In HUGE files. Either raw, which most of them can't open, or tifs at 2400 dpi and 16x20 in size. Let them try to reformat. Tell some of them "I'm going to edit and put on my freebie.website.com picture dump site, so everyone can copy and save at the same time." Pics at 72 dpi in 2x4 inch format on the webpage. Oops. Been handed a camera? Set to manual focus. Out of focus. Ooops. Oh gee, I'm having a heck of a time with this computer stuff. Can you bring that thumbdrive next month? I'm a little busy with other projects right now. "Yeah, I can get you some prints. Can you spot me 30 bucks to pay the Walmart processer?"</p> <p>Or, you could be polite. And politely introduce some people to the concept of "No."</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydesi Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>Considering that most people seem to dump all of their shots on Facebook without even culling the blurry ones, it's clear that most people don't have the same standards that people who take photography seriously, whether amateur or pro. Therefore, they will be less selective than you, and will be happy with some of the shots that would end up on your discard pile.</p> <p>That said, what I find odd is that people would insist that they get access to your photos before you do. I take photos at family and friend events, and no one has asked me to hand over my shots, even though everyone knows I'll be bringing my camera.</p> <p>An easy solution without having to be rude or risk offending people as has been frequently suggested above, is to shoot RAW + JPEG, and change your in camera processing settings to render the JPEGs totally unusable...jack up the red channel, say, and totally reduce the blue channel. Pics will look horrible, and they'll have to wait for yours anyway. Explain that you have to process the pics for them to look right, but you'll give them the pics if they want. Copy over the JPEGs for them. One or two times of that, and you'll be free of those kinds of requests, and people will understand that your processing and selection is important.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo_fonseca1 Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>Thank you all for your input.</p> <blockquote> <p>Just tell them to take their own photos.<br> ... maybe handing them a card with "Photographer for hire at $100 per hour if you aren't able to shoot your own photographs" ...</p> </blockquote> <p>I confess that responding with a plain resounding "no" or being ironic comes ocasionally to my mind. However, very often I care about about the person who's asking and I think they insist because that simply isn't an issue for them. So what I was really thinking of was some sort of ingenuous analogy to make them understand my point and accept my refusal. </p> <blockquote> <p>I generally don't bother bringing a camera to events involving family or friends.</p> </blockquote> <p>Oh, I don't think I will deny myself the pleasure of taking pictures of my growing kids because of other people. However, if everything else fails, then something just came to my mind: I might get a film camera :-)</p> <blockquote> <p>...why NOT just hand out your "rough drafts" ... ? To THEM, your are being a perfectionist. Think about it.</p> </blockquote> <p>You're right. It might be the case that I am just being too picky about something of no importance. But can't do anything about being like that...</p> <blockquote> <p>Are you a photographer with skills or a snap shooter who couldn't care less about his/her end product?</p> </blockquote> <p>In-between the two: I don't necessarily have the skills but care about what I do and I am trying to learn. I invest more time and money on photography than average people do, and so I naturally care more, even though I do it fundamentally for my pleasure. I might commit mistakes but I am getting good at recognising problems in my photos that "laypeople" wouldn't notice or care.</p> <p>So, based on your suggestions, I think I am going to divide my strategy in two cases:<br> 1) If I have no hope that the person will ever understand my point (think about your young facebook freak cousin :-) ) or the situation is just a bit too delicate (think about your boss :-) ) then I think I will go with the white "I shoot raw" lie. Actually I often shoot RAW+jpeg but that's quite a sound excuse and I wonder why I had never thought about it. I might even start shooting raw only so that it will no longer be an excuse but a fact, and so I will have more peace of mind.<br> 2) If she/he is a closer friend/relative (think about your father :-) ) and I find it important that she/he understands and respects this aspect of my character, then I might struggle to convince them. Perhaps I will mention that I once had this discussion in this forum and that I was not the only person to act like that. But it is a pain... besides I am brazilian and in my culture people tend to be of quite expontaneous and extrovert personality so they cannot understand this kind of reserve concerning such a "trivial" matter...<br> Thank you all agin </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <blockquote> <p>change your in camera processing settings to render the JPEGs totally unusable...jack up the red channel, say, and totally reduce the blue channel. Pics will look horrible, and they'll have to wait for yours anyway. Explain that you have to process the pics for them to look right,</p> </blockquote> <p>According to the story, they already know that that the pictures do not look that way and are likely to realize they have been sabotaged which will worsen the situation.</p> <p>Dear Abby would disapprove, I'm sure.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo_fonseca1 Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 <blockquote> <p>I think Paulo explained exactly why he didn't want to "just hand out his rough drafts" - it made him feel bad and as if someone had "broken into his intimacy". I think that takes that option off the table - in fact that was the whole point of his post.</p> </blockquote> <p>Oh, and about this "broken into his intimacy" stuff, did I say something funny? :-p <br />Reading that now, feels like I might have chosen a bad word... maybe not appropriate in this context... maybe too strong... the pitfalls of foreign languages... sorry :-p</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_bellenis Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>Actually Paulo I understood exactly what you meant - you have nothing to apologize for, your English is excellent.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tholte Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>I always bring my camera everywhere I go and if family or friends want images that I have taken at an event or gathering, I put them on a DVD and give them one. I make sure the images are ready to print off the DVD and tell them where to go to get them printed. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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