Pushing Tri-X

[max_barstow]

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>Having looked a bit, Microdol, Acufine and Diafine all sound like options for getting it to 800 and, more usefully to me, 1600. I don't think I can't get Diafine in England (Silverprint don't have it, nor Calumet), so I'm interested in Microdol and Acufine.</p>

<p>I'm aware that of these two, one won't simply be 'better' than the other, but what sort of differences do they give (grain, contrast, shadow detail), and can you recommend times and dilutions too (at 20 degrees celsius, 68 farenheit for Americans?). Please do recommend other developers if you think they might be better. Bear in mind this is 120 Tri-X, not 35mm.</p>

<p>Thanks, Max</p>

[Mike Gammill]

<p>I don't think Microdol is the best choice for pushing. Were you thinking of Ilford's Microphen? Microphen will take Tri-X to I.E. 800 with scarcely a blink. Microdol (actually called Microdol-X) by Kodak is a fine grain developer rather than speed enhancing. Stock Microdol actually may lose a bit of speed with some films. Less sharpness because Microdol, like other fine grain developers, acts as a solvent on grain. Some people have have some success pushing with Microdol at its 1:3 dilution, but the developing times are quite long.</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>800 isn't much of a push for Tri-X, and depending on the subject tonal range and lighting it may not be a push at all but, rather, an appropriate exposure index for the scenario. D-76, ID-11, HC-110 and several other developers are perfectly fine for Tri-X up to 800. Microdol is generally intended for fine grain and film exposed at the rated speed or slower than the rated speed, rather than for pushing.</p>

<p>Beyond 800, you'll probably get better results with something like Acufine, Xtol, T-Max developer, Microphen (my personal choice), etc., tho' HC-110 works okay too. Apparent grain, contrast, etc., will depend heavily on other factors including subject tonal range, lighting and your own metering and exposure biases. For example, rating Tri-X at 1600 and shooting a subject consisting of all midtones in daylight is very different from rating it at 1600 for use in EV 4-5 lighting indoors at a party. There's an excellent PDF on Ilford's website that explains these factors. Or try both extremes on a single roll and see for yourself how it turns out.</p>

<p>Diafine is a whole 'nuther thing - nothing else quite looks like Tri-X in Diafine - other, perhaps, than another two-bath developer, tho' I haven't tried any other. Tri-X at EI 1200-1600 in Diafine tends to have a unique (or peculiar) appearance. In high contrast scenes it controls contrast well. With low contrast scenes or under overcast light it can appear murky with little separation of midtones.</p>

[jean_yves_mead]

Ag Photographic stocks Diafine. Having said that, due to what Lex said Diafine seems to work well if you

plan to scan the negatives and process the image digitally, but I suspect that doing it in the darkroom

would be a good working definition of Hell.

 

Personally I've had good results to EI 3200, and usable at EI 6400, with semi-stand development in 1:50

Rodinal - but it does take forever.

[max_barstow]

<p>Correction, I meant Microphen (woops)!</p>

<p>I'd be pushing in low-light situations (I don't need fast shutter-speed outdoors in daylight), occasionally early-morning/evening, but far more often than not indoors, so that's what I'm really concerned with. I use Xtol 1:1 @8mins normally; how could I alter that to push another stop?</p>

<p>I'm doing everything analogue (I have no scanner, and am clueless about using photoshop/LR). I doubt I'll be in especially high-contrast scenes, and I'm printing with a colour-head enlarger anyway, so contrasty negs should not be an issue; maybe a no to Diafine then, if it gives flat results? Also, though AG Photographic stock it, it's 32.50 for 3.8litres! What's the standard dilution for it? Lex, could you post that PDF link, I couldn't find it. Also, why do you prefer Microphen?</p>

<p>Jean, I used to use Rodinal at 1:25 for Tri-X EI400, and got sick of its graininess; won't it be similar here? I'm also not overly keen on waiting around forever.</p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>Max,</p>

<p>Jim Byers wrote up his process for pushing TX to EI 1600 in 510-Pyro, here:</p>

<p><a href="http://pyrostains.blogspot.com/2010/03/pyro-for-pushers.html">http://pyrostains.blogspot.com/2010/03/pyro-for-pushers.html</a></p>

<p>Jim posted his results, which look very nice. Good luck!</p>

<p> </p>

[giverin]

<p>Max, Jessops sell Microphen. You can order online and have it sent to your local store for you to collect. I'm collecting some from my local Jessops tommorow. It costs £6 for a 1 litre pack. I'm using it for Neopan 1600 but in the past I've used it for Tri-x 400 pushed to 1600 as well as Delta 3200 @3200. I've been very happy with it.</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p>Check <a href="http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php">http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php</a> . It shows 11.75 minutes for 35mm and 11 minutes for 120 in Xtol 1:1 @ EI 1600; 14.5 minutes using 1:2 dilution; 16.25 minutes using 1:3 dilution. Xtol requires a minimum of 100ml per 80 square inches of film. There are times for EI3200 also.</p>

[clay2]

<p>Tri-X at 800 should be fine as others have noted. Back in the 1970's Peterson's<br>

Photography did a rigorous test of Acufine, Diaphine, Microphen, and other<br>

wonder speed developers. Their conclusion: Its better to wait for faster speed out of a box<br>

of film from Kodak than hope for a liquid out of a bottle. I always liked that one.<br>

Best regards,<br>

/Clay</p>

[max_barstow]

<p>Jay, I really don't want to get into mixing my own developer, and pyro stuff is quite specialist, and even toxic, isn't it? Sounds even more laborious than stand developing rodinal.</p>

<p>Charles, I tried that once before, using 1:1 dilution, and it gave me very thin negatives; made me rather distrust the massive dev chart.</p>

<p>Bruce, even though I'm dubious of digitaltruth, I think I'll try their time for Xtol 1:1 at 800, seeing as it does sound reasonable (it's a bit over 9minutes, as opposed to 8 for 400).</p>

<p>My inclination is now to try either Microphen or Acufine for EI1600; what are the differences between them, and how will different dilutions effect their results? Could you recommend times please?</p>

[ian_watson1]

<p>Max, keep in mind that the times listed at Digital Truth are only starting points. Try them, see what you get and adjust accordingly. That applies to any time that anyone suggests to you.</p>

<p>For what it is worth, when I tried pushing HP5+ in HC-110 I determined what multiple of developing time Digital Truth suggested for 1600 versus box speed of 400. Then I applied that factor to my own time and it worked nicely. </p>

 

[thirteenthumbs]

<p><a href="http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4017/f4017.pdf">Kodak Tech Pub f-4017</a> shows 13 1/4 minutes in Xtol 1:1 @ 20 degrees C. for a 2 stop push of TriX 400. The push chart is on page 7.</p>