510-Pyro using TEA 85%

[zarrir_junior]

<p>Is there any inconvenience in using 85% TEA instead of 99% TEA when mixing 510-Pyro? How about adding some glycol to the stock undiluted solution? How much?</p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>Hi Zarrir,</p>

<p>If you want to use 85% TEA to make a concentrated stock solution, be sure you're using the commercial grade with 15% DEA and not using 85% TEA LFG (Low Freezing Grade), with 15% water. The LFG has enough water to activate the TEA and oxidize the developer. 99% TEA (not LFG) is the best option. I don't find any advantage in adding glycol to the stock. </p>

[zarrir_junior]

<p>Hmmmm, i bought it locally and my source could only specify 85% Trietanolamine. He also does not know if it is LFG or not. I have compared it to a 98% DEA solution and it looks definitely more fluid. I guess i bought TEA LFG.... :-((</p>

[zarrir_junior]

<p>Apparently, the final destination of this specific product would be the cosmetic industry. Any clues? Is there any test i could do on that solution to try to identify DEA there? Either way, specially because it does not hurt, i will try to develop one roll with a 510-Pyro from that TEA and i will also experiment with a 50% TEA-DEA solution to see what happens.</p>

[zarrir_junior]

<p>Actually the answer couldn´t be easier: If i cool the solution to 10 degrees Celsius and it freezes then it is a non-LFG TEA</p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>Zarrir,</p>

<p>The DEA will increase the pH, which will in turn make for a more active, grainier developer. Given the activity of 510-Pyro in TEA, I don't see why you'd want to compromise its qualities by increasing the pH. If 85% TEA is all you can get, you should use it, but I don't see any advantage to making a 50/50 TEA/DEA mix. If your 85% TEA is LFG, you might be able to drive the water off by heating the TEA above the vapor point. Pour it into a shallow glass baking pan and put it in the oven for a while at 250F. If there's any water in it, it should escape as steam. </p>

[james_m10]

<p>Is TEA a common abbreviation for triethanolamine? It is a little confusing/ambiguous as TEA (to a chemist at least) refers to Triethylamine (Et3N), something related, but very different.</p>

[zarrir_junior]

<p>James, you are correct, TEA stands for Triethanolamine. Triethylamine is a different animal. Jay, that mixture would be just an experience, not intended to overcome the well-known and remarkable 510-Pyro formula.</p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>Zarrir,</p>

<p>I understand completely. Have fun!</p>

<p> </p>