Water Stop Bath for Prints - Alkaline fixer

[zarrir_junior]

<p>I finally started using an alkaline fixer (TF-3) for my <strong>prints</strong>. I process them one-shot with Jobo. My question is: Should i keep using a pure water stop bath before pouring the fixer or do i need to acid-stop the development first? Or perhaps no stop bath at all (pour fixer imediately after developer)? I currently use Maxim Muir´s Black-Blue tone developer.</p>

[mukul_dube]

<p>I do not know the developer and fixer you use; but reason tells me that an acid stop bath will be quicker and more effective than plain water. As your fixer is alkaline, you will need to work out just how acidic the stop bath should be. I should think that no stop bath at all will contaminate the fixer rapidly.</p>

[peter_mounier]

<p>Prints are fully developed after about a minute, so there is no hurry to stop the development for prints, as there is for film. Rinsing off the developer with water before pouring the fixer is a good idea though, as Mukul suggests.</p>

<p>Peter</p>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>An alkaline fixer needs always an acid stop. The capacity will go down quickly when a stop is left and you can have easily dichromatic fog.</p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>Robert,</p>

<p>How does a fixer cause dichroic (dichromatic) fog? One of the developers I'm working on suffers from dichroic fog with some films. The fixer I use is a neutral, rapid fixer. Do you think this can contribute to the dichro fog?</p>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>It will cause Yellow stains on the paper. You can remove it by a solution of HCA (Sodiumsulfite). Sometimes you see it on older Thermaphot or Durst roller machines (2-bath) when the rollers are not tight anymore. Too many developer is going into the fixer and will cause dichroitic fog on the paper.</p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>I was getting a reflective sheen on my film when I used my superfine grain developer with a neutral rapid fix. I re-fixed in an acid rapid fix and the stain is gone. I think my fix might have been too near exhaustion. Thanks!</p>

[zarrir_junior]

<p>Hi Robert, please note that i am referring to prints done on a Jobo processor, fresh fixer is used every shot.</p>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>Yes but also here you have to use an Acid Stop to prevent any possibility of dichroitic fog on your paper.<br>

Use a 1,5-2% Citric Acid or Acetic Acid solution for 30S in the Jobo before using the Alkaline TF-3 fixer.<br>

When using PE/RC paper you can use an Acid type fix without stop. When using fiber/baryta paper you have to go for the Alkaline fix type anyway.</p>

[profhlynnjones]

<p>If the second solution isn't well below Ph7, it ain't stop bath! A water rinse also sucks!<br>

Acetic acid 2% to 5% will clear or prevent most problems. It not only stops the development it washes out the residual developer which you sure don't want for several important chemical reasons, it toughens the gelatin without hardening it, and helps prevent sulfurization of the fixer which should be acid as well. I'd sure like to know why some users are anti acid. If your fingers are scratched, use rubber gloves, in fact that isn't a bad idea anyway.<br>

The only legitimate reason for a non acid stop bath is for certain color films which in a some instances will chemically deteriorate the magenta dye layer.</p>

<p>Lynn (yes I feel strongly about this)</p>

[wendell_kelly]

<p>I've been using TF2 with an intermediate water rinse between the D72 developer and the fixer without any of the problems which the other contributors have mentioned. My experience is over several years and at least 500 prints.<br>

I use Ilford resin coated, variable contrast papers.</p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>Lynn,</p>

<p>I use a plain water rinse and a neutral fix with staining film developers, as the acid removes some of the stain. For prints, an alkali fix is said to wash out of the paper quicker, which can be an issue for FB papers. For non-staining film developers, I'm using a plain water rinse and an acid rapid fix. I've never had any issues with my neutral fix and prints; just with my superfine grain film developer, which produces dichroic fog with some films. An acid stop and fix seem to solve the problem.</p>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>Even with staining developers you can use an Acid stop, however you have to keep it under 1,5% concentration to keep the stain.<br>

Wolfgang Moersch, the specialist in Europe of these type of developers has made extensive tests about this issue. FINOL is his latest type of staining developer and is working without any issues.</p>

<p> </p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>Robert, </p>

<p>I've made my own tests, and find no advantage to an acid stop for use with staining developers. Staining developers are generally quite dilute, and a water rinse effectively halts development. If an acid stop is desired, a weak acid, such as lactic acid, in higher concentration can be re-used, while a stronger acid, such as acetic acid in low concentration should be used one-shot. </p>

[rowland_mowrey]

An acid stop works with TF-4 just fine. In fact, all manufacturers suggest using a Stop Bath of some sort when making prints.

 

 

Ron Mowrey

[zarrir_junior]

<p>Just confirming Wendell´s experience above i see no dichroic fog on the prints i´ve done last week (about 100) when using three 30 seconds water rinses between the developer and TF4. So i see no reason (at this moment) to use an acid stop with my Jobo prints. What pleases me most is the fact that by doing this i am avoiding chemical contamination in my system, keeping it alkaline all the way. No acid spills anywhere.</p>