Experience, the Best Teacher?

[george_burrows]

<p>I have come to the conclusion that constant shooting helps me learn my camera(s) and lens selections, not to mention the basics of photography. I shoot live music/concerts, so I am up against some trying lighting environments. I started using aperture mode (Nikon D90/ D300s) and recently moved to manual mode to get better low light exposures. My question is will experience eventually allow me to understand things like ISO, F Stop and metering or should I take more classes? I am pretty frustrated at some shoots due to not understanding what settings and features on my cameras to use. .<br /> jorge</p>

[stemked]

<p>George,<br>

I am a Professor who used to teach nature photography at a liberal arts college . I'm also a self-taught photographer. I read just about every book I could to learn the craft, went to photography saloons got good feedback from them through their critism. Both approaches work or don't work. It depends on you. Learn from your mistakes and try not to do them again. Look at good images and try and figure out WHY they are good. There are no magic bullets.</p>

[chrisnielsen]

<p>This very website has some great resources to help with those issues. go to the Learning tab at the top and go from there</p>

[mariosforsos]

<p>Even though I'm now making a good living off photography, I will be the first to admit that I have no formal training. I have attended no classes whatsoever. BUT, I have read more than 100 books, literally hundreds of website tutorials and have participated in countless discussions (both on-line and personal) with photographers far more experienced than I am. AND I have shot over 50,000 images over the past 4 years and have spent time and energy analysing EACH and EVERY ONE that is not to my satisfaction to see why it came out the way it did or what I can do to improve it next time. AND I know my cameras pretty much by heart from the first moment they came out of the box - matter of fact is that in case of my D700 and now my D3 (two of them) I had downloaded and read the manual, cover to cover, with notes(!!!) BEFORE I even bought the cameras!</p>

[george_ghio]

<p>My approach to learning such things as ISO, F Stop and metering is the "suck it and see" method. I put my camera on a tripod and took pictures of the same scene at a range of settings. Pretty easy to see what works and what doesn't. Didn't even print the photos, just added the setting info to them and keep them in a file on the computer. That was a year ago. Looked at the file a lot for a couple of months to fix the settings that work in my mind. Haven't looked at the file for some time now. Well, it worked for me, but then I learn best by doing.</p>

[jim_j2]

<p>With the age of Computers and a world on information close at hand, I do like Mario's these days, . . . study the User's Manual before I even make the purchase!<br>

Many people overlook the User's Manual and expect too much "User friendly" features with today's digital cameras.<br>

I'm not certain about Nikon's manuals, but the Canon user manuals with some study will teach you the basics of photography as a starting point, and how to obtain them on the specific camera body.<br>

Under the "Learning" tab here on PN is also an excellent place to start. Always remember, . . . "It's all about light," whether on film or a digital sensor.</p>

[paddler4]

<p>I'd say that you will be able to learn some from experience, but not by any means all, unless you stay at if ror a very long time and do controlled tests. I would combine practice with reading, if you are not taking classes. That will also help you learn from experience more quickly, and it will make learning far less frustrating. There are many great sites on the web that can help you along. If you are somewhat technically oriented, one that I have found very useful is this one: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials.htm</p>

[dan_south]

Most things you can and should learn from experience, but for some basic concepts you need to crack a book first, then

experiment until the concept becomes second nature to you. F-stops, for instance, are a simple concept. They describe

the diameter of a circle. Everyone can understand circles and diameters. But there are interesting reasons why it is more

beneficial to express the size of the aperture as a ratio of the focal length rather than as some random number.

 

If I say that my aperture is 25 mm in diameter, that doesn't give me as much information as saying that I am shooting my

100 mm lens at f/4. Some study will help you comprehend the difference and why the latter method is more useful.

[andrewg_ny]

<p>Just shooting may not teach you everything. Whether reading or classes work better has to do with how you learn best. There is a wealth of free information on the internet, and plenty of books that attempt to explain this stuff too. It's hard for practice to teach everything unless you know what you're trying to do.</p>

[george_burrows]

<p><em>I am appreciative of the useful suggestions. I have taken some classes at my local photo store and have read quite a lot on line. What I have not done is read my Nikon manuals. I do watch the DVD on the D300s often as to help familiarize myself as to functions and locations of controls. I also watch <a href="http://www.kelbytraining.com/">Kelby</a> training videos. I need to get the basic down so I am not so frustrated. I would like to submit some photos for CC on the proper forum as well. jorge~</em></p>

[jim_j2]

<p>George,<br>

I see that you are new to our community. Welcome!<br>

I would suggest spending some time reading some of the articles under the "Learning" tab from the top of the page, as well, familiarize yourself with the area's of the "Forums" that interest you, or the categories within the forums that can assist you in the process. There is a "wealth of information" exchanged here on PN from some very knowledgeable and friendly people.<br>

Don't be afraid or shy to submit your own questions in the proper categories, and you will usually get a quick response. That's what the "Beginner Questions" forum for one is all about! Or, visit the forum that relates directly to your brand or type of equipment for "your gear specific" type questions.<br>

Learn the size requirements, and start downloading some of your images into your Portfolio. Then learn the process for submitting those images for Critiques or Ratings. But don't get frustrated too quickly from not getting the critique or rating you may expect, and be prepared to recieve the "good & bad," or "No" critique.<br>

Look through some of the Galleries here and you will be amazed at some of the work on this site. Unlike many other sites, Photo.net is closely moderated and has outstanding Moderators and Admin folks that keep us "all in line when necessary."<br>

<em>Don't get "overwhelmed" with trying to learn the "technically correct" methods of photography immediately. It will only cause frustration! </em><br>

<em><strong>Most of all, . . . Don't be afraid to put that thing on "full auto" once in a while along the "learning journey!" It's not a Sin to use some of the auto features of your camera!"</strong></em><br>

<strong><em>You've got to have a little fun along the way!</em></strong><br>

<strong><em> </em></strong></p>

<blockquote>

<p>"I started using aperture mode (Nikon D90/ D300s) and recently moved to manual mode to get better low light exposures."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Your moving in the right direction here by using the AV mode, but your dissatisfaction with your "low light" images are probably related more to your lens than anything else!<br>

I expect you have the kit lens, it's largest aperture is probably f/4. From what I read here within the forums from those that do a lot of "Concert" type photography, most use/recommend a lens with apertue capability of f/2.8 or larger.<br>

When the f/4 won't draw enough light, then you need to use slower shutter speeds. (usually not feasible because of subject and your movement, etc., etc..) An f/2.8 aperture will allow more light, thus faster shutter speeds that may "stop action" the subjects movement. Once you figure out the the minimum shutter speed you need than your meter will show that you can use a smaller aperture, like maybe f/3.2 or something until you get the Depth of Field you desire, etc., etc..<br>

A Flash, if you can use it at the venues you attend may also be necessary!<br>

Not knowing your experience, your lens etc., etc, all plays into the solution. It will not be immediate! But the help is here on PN!</p>

[wclark5179]

<p>Find a person who shares your outlook on life, who would be willing to serve as your coach and mentor. I find photography is like climbing endless stairs, never reaching the ultimate best photograph, always looking to do better the next time.</p>

<p>My mentor & coach, when he was alive, was a gentleman named Monte Zucker. He was always willing to help me, gently making suggestions how I could do better the next time.</p>

<p>Sports has people who serve as coaches. Why not do the same with your photography journey?</p>

[george_burrows]

<p><em>A coach would be beneficial. I have a few friends that I see periodically that offer suggestions and I post my photos on a few photo sites from time to time for CC. I will begin a search. </em><br>

<em>Thank you, jorge </em></p>

[SCL]

<p>George - I think a class is probably one of the less effective tools...you are probably much better off getting 2-3 good books on the topics and leisurely reading them while experimenting with what you have learned. At the same time don't take what you learn as gospel, photography is a dynamic endeavor and every scene will present its own unique challenges. As you gain experience you will be better able to evaluate the nuances or options available to you and produce more consistent photographs.</p>

[charlesheckel]

<p>As your bio says you were a principal, you already know it's not the class but the teacher that counts. If you were ever a teacher, you already know it's not you but the student that counts.<br>

There's nothing wrong with hands-on learning, but at some point you want intellectual understanding of the theory and concepts behind your process, and the tradeoffs involved in the choices you make. It doesn't matter whether you get it from a book or a class. Camera manuals are apt to be written by engineers rather than teachers, but there are usually well-written introductory texts at your local bookstore.<br>

Don't restrict yourself to photography. If you study the galleries here, you'll notice that many of the best images depend for their success on the same qualities that make a successful drawing or painting. Consider your own field of interest, and ask yourself, "What's going on in my work that shows the character of the musician or the quality of the music?"</p>

[george_burrows]

<p><em>I found a book entitled "Three Songs, No Flash" very helpful as I evaluate my photos and techniques. Concert photography is all about anticipation, what will he/she do next. Studying others work helps to see their use of light and positions used.</em></p>

[radiotyson]

<p>"Three Songs, No Flash" was an excellent book, mostly because it didn't focus on what gear/settings/technique to use when shooting concerts. However, seems like you want to understand the basics of f-stop, ISO, etc... check out the NatGeo field guide to Photography... helped me out alot in the beginning. Very "lamen's Terms" and straight forward.</p>

[scott_murphy_photography]

<p>Although there is no substitute for getting out and shoot as much as you can, you should also do what you can to learn the basics, either on the web or the thousands of books out there. I am essentially self taught, which when you consider that I learned during the 70's and 80's when there was no web, no digital cameras, just film and paper, it got pretty expensive and time consuming. Nowadays with DSLR's and the wealth of information on the www your learning curve should be shorter. It also never hurts to take a photography course or 4 at a local junior college, which will shorten your learning curve just that much more.</p>

[craig_gillette]

<p>"My question is will experience eventually allow me to understand things like ISO, F Stop and metering or should I take more classes? I am pretty frustrated at some shoots due to not understanding what settings and features on my cameras to use."</p>

<p>Experience won't necessarily quickly help you with technical things like iso, f stops, etc. "Experience" might just show you more of the same results (or different results but without an understanding of what you did and why it changed the way it did). Whether a class or a mentor or a video is the best approach depends on your own learning style. </p>

<p>What I'd suggest is setting up and trying a systematic set of pictures taken under fairly controlled conditions but with sufficient light as to make a range of adjustments practical. This will help you get your own set of sample images and help you get familiar with your own camera controls. (For me, taking the mechanics and then moving to composition and (making) opportunity to get "art" is the hard part.)</p>

<p>Shutter speed controls subject and camera motion, aperture/f stop controls the flow of light. ISO or sensitivity controls the amount of light needed for a proper exposure. "F stops" go back to early photo days where mechanical "stops' were used to set apertures and the term stuck. "A stop" is essentially a doubling or halving of light, or of shutter speed, or of sensitivity. For any given iso/sensitivity, a certain quantity of light is needed for a proper exposure. "Opening up a stop" means opening the aperture up so it allows twice the light over the same exposure time. so to keep exposure quantity constant, one would need to halve the exposure time. Say at iso 100, the proper exposure is f4 at 1/500 second. If one closed "down 1 stop" to f5.6, that means closing the aperture one stop (half the area. half the light flow) so one would need to leave the shutter open twice as long - 1/250 of a second. If one were at a 1 stop higher iso, (iso 200), then the exposure would be f4 and 1/1000 second shutter speed.</p>

<p>Shutter speeds to control motion can be found in tables but you might want to work your way through a series of pictures to see how they work for you. A subject crossing the field shows more motion than one angling towards or away and a subject moving directly towards or away shows even less motion. Distance to the subject and speed of the subject also impacts the shutter speed needed to freeze motion. Indoors or low light concert conditions may be so low in light that almost any exposure is going to be slow enough to show either subject or camera motion. Daytime subject matter like traffic, a merry go round, etc., will show motion and you can control the direction by adjusting the way you are shooting the subject. A merry go round could show crossing, angling and straight ahead/straight back motions. There might not be a lot of difference between one stop changes, say 1/500 versus 1/1000 but as you look at 1/250 versus 1/1000 or 1/125 versus 1/1000 the changes should be more apparent. Note that you will also likely see some of the effects on depth of field from changing aperture as well.</p>

<p>From there, it may be easier to decide of mentoring or classes or book learning fits you better.</p>