New experiment, need camera recommendation (silent 16mm movies)

[cole_paquette]

<p>I was not quite sure of where to put this, so I set it in beginner as I am new to this idea.<br>

I just started experimenting with silent 16mm movies-and I must say, it is quite fun. a photograph tells a story, but a film, even silent, is a book series.<br>

I was planning on doing some modern-style art pieces with the camera, and I won't be using sound, so sound sync, sound recording, etc is not needed. not is a quiet camera.<br>

But I need to get a camera, and some advice on the ones on my list would be nice.<br>

basic list:<br>

Bolex H16 (most any model)<br>

Bolex 16 EBM<br>

Beaulieu R16 Automatic<br>

and for if I can get the money or get one cheap enough:<br>

Aaton XTR Prod<br>

Arri 16 SR2/SR3</p>

<p>and someone local has an Arri 16 S for sale, no lenses, but it has the motor, body, cord, matte box, and three caps for the turret.<br>

they want less than $100 for it. How much would cheap lenses and the battery or AC power adapter run me, and would it be a good thing to grab? It is in working condition, just some bad paint scratches and peeling-only cosmetic damage.</p>

<p>thanks for the help-I have no experience with motion cameras and need all the help I can get.</p>

[Charles_Webster]

<p>I'd look for a used Bolex H16 Rex 4 or 5. The through the lens reflex viewing takes much of the guess work out of follow focus.</p>

<p>The Beaulieu is a great camera also but I'm not sure you will find working batteries anymore. The Bolex, being spring wound has no battery requirements unless you use one of their motors.</p>

<p>Any accessory for the Arri will be expensive, but a search for C-mount lenses on EBay might give you an idea of what you're facing.</p>

<p>If you have no experience with 16mm Cine cameras, you should get some instruction, either on line or in person. It's not all beer and skittles, as they say. Cine film and processing is much more complex than still photography, and requires substantial technical knowledge. There are no Auto functions on cine cameras.</p>

<p><Chas><br /><br /></p>

[cole_paquette]

<p>some place had recelled batteries, and adapters for rechargeables that are used in r/c vehicles.<br>

the arri lenses would be more expensive, but those cameras do hold value well, in case that ever becomes an issue.<br>

I can agree that the Bolex would be a good idea. the Beaulieu is more unusual and unique than fully practical-it is basically en electric bolex. the arri is likely to rise quickly and highly in price, so that isn't such a good idea. Yeah, i'd say the bolex tops those other choices for now. plus, there are many cheap working bolex cameras on ebay. the H16 REX models look nice, but the $4000+ most people want is too much. not only do I simply not want to spend that on an older camera at the moment, but it seems nobody else wants to either.<br>

most of my technical knowledge is with fully manual large and medium format still photography. I don't have the darkroom items needed for cine film, but mail process isn't too expensive. loss of auto functions will not be an issue, I never use them when the cameras have them-not enough control, and usually the auto settings are never quite accurate enough.</p>

<p>here is the one arri:<br>

http://cgi.ebay.com/Arri-Arriflex-16mm-S-Camera-Matte-Box-Motor-Power-Cord-/220670158380?pt=US_Camera_Film&hash=item3360f7662c</p>

<p>the other is twice as much, free shipping, and has the motor power supply as well (wall socket power!)<br>

can't find the link among all the ebay links i have saved, I'll show it eventually (soon)</p>

[jpo3136b]

<p>That Arri for sale appears to have no lenses attached. Keep that in mind when looking at movie cameras for sale. You will need a lens.</p>

<p>Bolex. Try to get a reflex. I'd say about $800 ought to be about right. I paid $175 for mine, and another $175 for maintenance and repairs. [Mine was initially in horrible condition.] It is non-reflex. Works great. I used Plus-X Reversal in mine. Call Kodak and ask to buy direct; but, don't use the quickie film delivery service, just call their sales desk. </p>

<p>My Bolex is from the 1946/47 years. Still going strong. Something to think about if you consider cameras with electric motors. Any decay in that circuit could cause you trouble. Just getting the thing operational will make you a newbie all over again, so you may want to cut down on the electrical hassles with motion picture equipment over 20 years old. </p>

[cole_paquette]

<p>good point. I had looked at lenses, and they were quite reasonable priced. the bolex are looking good. will the reflex make that big of a difference? good point with the condition-the REX if I recall is manual, but has a motor that can be added, right?<br>

so finding one with a motor means it can be removed and the crank put on, correct? as opposed to the EBM or the EL.<br>

should I also look for one that can take the accessory magazine? seems like extra film space could come in handy.<br>

and I was wondering-some auction said the bolex cameras are self-loading with the film leader, just put the film in and it runs it automatically through the rollers and onto the take-up reel. is that even possible?</p>

[Charles_Webster]

<p>All Bolexes are spring driven, so unless the crank has been removed you can hand wind the spring motor. The 400' magazine requires its own take up motor, which is powered from the camera motor. I don't recall seeing a way to power it seperately.</p>

<p>The Bolexes will indeed feed the leader through the loop formers and the gate, but you have to manually engage it on the take up reel. Remember these are hard-sided daylight camera reels.</p>

<p>The magazine requires that it be loaded with film on a core, in a dark bag, with a loop of film protruding through the bottom into the camera body. In that case, you can't auto-thread the camera drive.</p>

<p>If you are just shooting short, silent clips for later editing, there is no need for the 400' magazine and it's weight makes it almost impossible to hand-hold the camera. If you are doing long takes or sync sound, it's a necessity.</p>

<p>I did substantial professional documentary production in the 70s with a Bolex H16-Rex 4 and got very good results.</p>

<p><Chas><br /><br /></p>

[cole_paquette]

<p>just got back to this thread.<br>

How fast can the bolex shoot?<br>

I do enjoy high-speed shots of stuff.<br>

probably between 50 and 70 FPS should be the max (52 fps, 64 fps, etc).<br>

I can't check for an online manual for either bolex or beaulieu, or anything else for that matter, as PDF files will not open from the internet on my computer. still haven't figured out the solution, so until then, I'm stuck asking all these questions.<br>

the great benefit of bolex is that the company is still around, which means camera service should still exist.<br>

but it is my understanding that reflex bolex cameras use a prism finder, which complicates focusing and makes low-light focusing very hard.</p>

[cole_paquette]

<p>okay, I admit to the fact that I like to browse ePray and see what's new.<br>

http://cgi.ebay.com/Arri-Arriflex-IIC-IIB-Movie-Camera-w-AC-DC-Motor-/260685402845?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item3cb20f92dd<br>

I can see it needs a lens, and the cost of that varies, as well as it needs various repairs (and the guy points them out!)<br>

a clip that rubs, a motor that doesn't appear to match the camera, a metal spring or clip with a crack, etc.<br>

but, look at the name: Arnold and Richter. arri. that's an old one.<br>

I might go for it on the fact that it is a rather nice, and unique, and historic piece. then I would justify the camera with repairs, a lens, and some film :)<br>

anyone know anything about this camera? it any good?</p>