Neopan 400 (Legacy) + Rodinal, weird pattern on film

[shadowleaves]

<p>Hi guys,<br>

I've been trying this combo a while, but the two rolls that I developed both had this weird pattern when scanned at high resolution or viewed with a high-mag loupe. I thought it was my Rodinal, but I always use freshly diluted solution, and I used the same original stock solution a month ago with Arista.EDU Ultra 400 (Fomapan 400) and had no problem whatsoever. I've been told that Rodinal stores very well. Has anyone seen this before? Is it more likely a film issue, developer issue, or fixer issue? I didn't have chance to change my fixer though...<br>

Thank you for your attention.<br>

Han<br>

<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4595121/crop.jpg" alt="" /></p>

 

[franklin_polk]

<p>That to me looks like an excellent/classic example of reticulation. Reticulation happens when there is a large difference in temperatures between the different chemicals, which causes the emulsion to change size at a different rate than the base, and appears to crack. Make sure that all steps of your process (develop, stop, fix, and even wash) are within around 5 degrees of each other. Most modern films aren't that susceptible to this, but perhaps Foma, being an older style film is. On say Tri-x, I haven't gotten this with even a 10 degrees difference between chemicals/stages.</p>

[shadowleaves]

<p>Thank you Franklin, but I was using Legacy 400 (Fuji Neopan 400) which I think is a pretty modern film...<br>

As for temperature, I'm pretty sure the temperature of developer/stopper/fixer were all within 5 deg difference, but maybe the washing is a bit too high. Anyway I will try it again and thank you for your help!</p>

[shadowleaves]

<p>Hmmm, looks like someone had exactly the same problem a few months ago with the same film......perhaps Neopan 400 is indeed sensitive to reticulation caused by temperature shifting?<br>

<a href="http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/76841-reticulation-neopan-400-a.html">http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/76841-reticulation-neopan-400-a.html</a></p>

 

[leicaglow]

<p>Han, you should be able to eliminate the development side of things in a couple of ways. First, is the negative cleared from the fixer? If yes, then not a fixer issue. Does it have a proper range of tones? This would indicate the developer did its job. Next, get a high magnification loupe out and see if the grains look like this under high magnification. No? Then it may be a scanner problem. I would scan the image with no scratch, Ice, Fare, sharpening, etc. It could be the software is doing odd things to the grain structure. If it looks like that under a loupe, then I would look to film or developer.</p>

<p>If you're sure the developer wasn't too hot or cold (or that the chemistry, including pre-washing, if any) was off by a few degrees, then it could be something with the film. Maybe it was old or stored wrong? Maybe it got hot? Another round of testing would be in order, and that will probably tell you a lot. As for Neopan, it is a sturdy film stock, and aggressively washing it should not be a problem. One thing that pops into mind is if the film was left in water too long. It could have swollen the emulsion.</p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>It's definitely reticulation.</p>

[bobmichaels]

<p>I shoot a lot of Neopan 400, both 35mm and 120, and develop in Rodinal. I develop at 68 degrees and use tap water which is 80 degrees in summer for stop. I have never seen any signs of reticulation.</p>

[shadowleaves]

<p>Ok I've done it again with the same batch of film, the same solutions and carefully controlled washing temperature. Reticulation is gone this time....<br>

Thank you all for your help!</p>

<p><img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4595121/after.jpg" alt="" width="808" height="687" /></p>

[bobmichaels]

<p>Han: I am curious what the temperature differential was between your developer and the other solutions. This is because I work with a 12 F differential and do not see any reticulation scanning on a film scanner and viewing the files at pixel level. </p>

[frank.schifano]

<p>This does not happen when the wash water goes cold, but it does happen if it gets too warm. In winter my straight tap water, which I use for the wash, runs very cold and I've never seen anything close to this. To be fair, I don't subject the film to a sudden temperature shock. I keeps some tempered water for an initial rinse and refill of the tank before I start to very slowly introduce cold tap water. Because the cool down is very gradual, there is no problem. I can't see any difference in grain in and 8x enlargement between negatives that I washed completely in processing temperature water and those I washed using a gradual cool down.</p>

[JDMvW]

<blockquote>

<p>classic example of reticulation</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No matter how it happened, that is definitely what it is.</p>

<p>Doing this on purpose was a common trick in film "art". A few still do it (<a href="http://www.ephotozine.com/article/Create-reticulation-when-film-processing-4639">LINK</a>)</p>

[shadowleaves]

<p>Hi Bob, I think the tempatures for my developer/stop/fixer remained the same in both cases (all at room temperature). The only difference was the washing water. I used a Jobo washer which basically is a tube connecting to the tap on its one end and inserts into a Jobo 1520 drum on its other end. In the first case (first pic), I didn't care for the temperature of wash water, and i think it was likely above 90 deg F. What's even worse was that after the wash I immersed the film strip into cold water. In the second case, I used a thermometer to make sure the tap water was at roughly the same temperature of my developer/stop/fixer (around 70 F).</p>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>Neopan 400 is more sensitive for reticulation then you should expect from a modern film. It can happen on all stages including the film wash.<br>

It's a typical example you showed on reticulation. The temperature shock will shrink the soft emulsion.<br>

To give you an advice for the Jobo washer (Cascade) : Never connect the Cascade into the tank before you have measured the outcoming water for a longer time. Safer and even maybe better works: 2 liter temperatured water in a bottle. Use the Ilford washing method. 4x an exchange with 5x 10x 20x and 40x inversions and put the 1520 (500ml) down for some time to let the diffusion process do the job.</p>

 

[bobmichaels]

<p>Han, thanks. 90+F is definitely on the warm side. I was really curious since I have processed using 68F developer for years with tap water stop at 70 to 80F depending on the time of year. Everything from there on is about the same temp as the tap water.<br>

I was curious if I had been living on the edge of problems for years. But I am guessing not. So I will not change a thing.</p>

[gabor_szabo3]

<p>Summer can be rough when developing film. Always measure the temp of the H20 at the tap.<br>

In my building, I've seen the water come out the cold side at close to 100F in August for the first minute or so.<br>

The water comes out warm, too, if the dishwasher has been running just before.<br>

95F is really pushing it for a lengthy wash. <br>

Do you use hypo eliminator ?</p>

[jtk]

<p>Nice to see that reticulation. I love Neopan 400 when it gets out of hand :-)</p>