How to determine the value of classic cameras

[jaydesi]

<p>I'm involved with some frustrating negotiations with a guy about some cameras. I made him an offer based on the prices of <strong>completed</strong> auctions that end in sales on eBay for the models in question. He counters by saying that my prices were extremely low, and the numbers he proposed were clearly based on ongoing auctions (with no bids, I have to add). In fact, one of the cameras was on its third listing, after not selling for the same price in two previous listings.</p>

<p>In my mind, and please tell me if I'm crazy, it's the price that these cameras are actually selling at that shows their value, not the price at which people are listing them.</p>

<p>I have to say, I hope you all tell me I'm crazy, because I'm going to start listing US pennies for a million dollars and become a millionaire.</p>

<p> </p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>You are, Jay, disappointingly sane. Something's only worth what someone is actually willing to <em>pay</em> for it. Completed sales are a good measure of that. Aspirational auctions (especially repeats!) are just fishing and wishful thinking.</p>

[charles_stobbs3]

I think the way you do but maybe we're both crazy.

[k5083]

<p>Yep, you're dealing with the real life equivalent of those guys who list beat-up SRTs for $200. I hope they love their cameras, because they're going to be enjoying them a while longer.</p>

[leigh_marrin]

Jay, it's my understanding that some COMPLETED eBay auctions are frauds. Some shady sellers are supposed to use

multiple buyer AND seller user-ID names. To raise the value on an item, a dealer will list it at a very high price, and then

using his phony buyer's name, then buy it back from himself. He'll then use that fake/shilled/sham auction as a price basis

when he relists a similar item. Another variation of a seller using multiple fake buyer ID-names is someone who wants to

give himself good feedback rating and reviews. (Or so I've read...) Instead of eBay, i suggest you use KEH or Pacific Rim

used catalog listings.

[SCL]

<p>As a long time buyer & seller on the 'bay, just pass this guy by. He is unrealistic unless what he is offering is truly unique and worth a lot more than completed auctions. You can find the same goods, I'm sure, with a more reasonable seller...it may take a couple of weeks, but maybe prices will drop further.</p>

[jaydesi]

<p>Thanks. He was originally willing to accept my offer, but then changed his mind when he did his own "research". I'm not worried about it, it's not my job to manage people's expectations. I know I made a fair offer, so I'm not going to allow myself to be ripped off because he can't set a reasonable price.</p>

<p>He can keep his cameras, I'll get others like it from someone else for a fair price.</p>

<p> </p>

[andylynn]

<p>What can you do? It's his stuff, he's free to ask whatever price he wants, you're free to say yes or no.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>Of course, some guy was <em>asking</em> over $1000.00 for a used copy of <em>A Day in the Life of the USSR</em> on Amazon. Others were asking just under $3.00.</p>

<p>You can <em><strong>ask</strong></em> whatever you want</p>

<blockquote>

<p><strong>Glendower:</strong><br /> I can call spirits from the vasty deep.<br>

<strong>Hotspur:</strong><br /> Why, so can I, or so can any man;<br /> But will they come when you do call for them?<br>

Shakespeare, <em>Henry the IV</em></p>

</blockquote>

[martin_dake]

<p>It's kind of like when Microsoft offered to buy Yahoo for $31 per share; 60% more than the then current price. Yahoo thought they were worth more than that so the offer fell through. Now Yahoo is at $15 and change.</p>

<p>Sometimes the first offer is the best offer.</p>

<p> </p>

[alex macphee]

<p>The problem with catalogue listings is that they, too, are only asking prices. My local dealer, good for many things, nevertheless has quite a range of items that, by eBay standards, are significantly overpriced, and it shows in that they have been on the shelves a long time. For example, they offer a Yashica ML 42-75 zoom, an uninspiring performer in the ML range, for £89, when the average closing price I've seen on eBay for the same lens is around £16-£20. Admittedly, part of the dealer's price usually factors in a warranty, but this lens has been on sale for over two years now. </p>

<p>I suppose the problem with eBay is that there can be a significant difference between lower and upper prices fetched, depending on presentation and the perception of the seller. In the week that I sold a Weston V meter, there were three others almost identical on offer from other sellers. Naturally I kept an eye on how the other auctions were progressing to closing prices ; all four sold, but mine fetched three times the price of the next highest closing price. A recent compact sale likewise fetched me around 50% more than the next highest of the three on auction that week. Looking at the competing auctions tells me that these lower prices were the result of poor presentation, and not that I was buying from myself (which of course I wasn't). I'm not entirely convinced that sellers buy from themselves often enough at inflated prices in order to drive up feedback ratings, though I remain open to the persuasion of evidence, since they'll have to pay a fair whack per feedback in eBay fees even on 'phantom' bids. I have however seen several cases where it's clear that the seller is bumping up his own feedback with a string of penny sales from zero feedback accounts.</p>

<p>If there's something you really want, then you'll do the research, and that includes eBay completed sales, knocking out higher prices if you think they're suspect outliers, and using some of the reference valuation books. </p>

<p>I know of one chap who's been trying to sell a lens on eBay for a long time. It always goes in at a Buy-It-Now of £99 and sits there for about twenty days, then a week later is relisted. Until I got fed up watching it, it had been on for around eight listings. I had been curious because I got mine on eBay a year earlier for £5. For all its foibles, eBay is a pretty raw leveller in market values. I guess he has to hope that he gets a buyer before the listing fees overtake the closing price.</p>

<p>Andrew Lynn has put it bluntly, but it's true. The essence of any successful transaction is that the buyer and seller necessarily have different perceptions of worth. The buyer must value the item more than the money in his pocket, and the seller must value the item less than the money in the buyer's pocket ; both conditions must obtain, else the transaction does not take place. </p>

 

[jaydesi]

<p>To some extent, my question was poised tongue in cheek, or at the very least, with a heavy dose of sarcasm. People have stuff sitting around all the time that they don't use, but still attach a false value to these items, usually based on what they paid for them. Unless you buy something as an investment, well researched, don't expect it to perform like one! No one expects to sell a car with 150,000 miles on it for even a fraction of what they paid for it new, but a 25+ year old camera in questionable shape is somehow expected to appreciate, despite the fact that it's worn, been stored in questionable conditions, etc.</p>

[User_4525289]

<p>Nohow, do not determine it. If i ask for the price and price seems high to me I am just mentioning them that CLA cost at least $70 extra bucks an auctioned cameras advertised as in working order. </p>

[diser]

<p>Completed eBay listings is a good start. Also you may want to check completed "hammer" auctions. Check current listings at KEH, Pacific Rim, RitzCam, deduct 15-20% and it could be a fair value. Also there are a lot of price suggesting sites (classic-camera.com, ukcamera.com, David Nosek price guide, collectiblend.com, etc) and books (McKeown's, Kadlubek's).</p>

[User_4136860]

<p>" Things" don't have intrinsic value, their value is in what you can get for them if nobody is willing to pay the price they are "worth" nothing, walk away Jay and buy them elsewhere, from someone who lives on Planet Earth.</p>

[bob_miller4]

<p>If people decline to pay too much, the price will drop, or the object won't be sold. These cameras aren't so unique.</p>

[curt_saxton]

<p>I hear this almost every day even from the guys I work with. One has both a Canon and a Nikon SLR sitting in his closet for years. He remembers something is wrong with each, but won't sell them because he wouldn't get what they were worth. Another has a broken Nikon FG (circuit board is gone according to the repair shop) without a lens and wants $20 because "It's worth it". I even had a lady get angry when I told her a box Brownie and Brownie Hawkeye were only worth a few dollars each. It's gotten to the point where I won't even discuss camera purchases till I hear a price first, no more "make me an offer".</p>

[christopher_m]

<p>Comparable sales is how many things are valued, especially real estate. If you are seeing comparable sales on eBay that means the items are not that rare.</p>

<p>An item that repeatedly doesn't sell at a price isn't the right price, so you can ignore the auctions of goKevincameras.</p>

<p>If the guy walks and tried to sell elsewhere, such as eBay, he will also face eBay fees, paypal charges, which may amount to 10%, not to mention the effort involved in packaging and shipping.</p>

<p>eBay eliminates "bargain finds" such as a Leica M3 in a estate sale for $20, but it also adds reality to sellers who think their Kodak tourist folder is worth $50.</p>

 

[John Smullen]

<p>The way I see it there are lots of other cameras to choose from. He either takes your price, makes an offer you like or you move on. Your seller may remember the collectible camera market as it one was.</p>