Should I keep my Mamiya RZ67 Pro II

[jhnyguitar]

<p>I'm at a turning point and I'm having a hard time making a decision. Do I keep my Mamiya RZ67 Pro II with assorted lenses or sell the kit? I shoot exclusively digital now and I have used this system with digital backs for a few years. I love the lenses. I hate the bulkiness of the system. I also hate the crop factor. If I get an architecture shoot, I have to rent equipment, which is a real drag. for in studio portraits and product work, the camera is fine. Can anyone tell me a good reason I should keep the system? Is there a 6x7 sensor looming in the future?<br>

Thanks!</p>

[scott_murphy_photography]

<p>It all depends on how much architectural and studio work you do. But I think you will have serious "<em>sellers</em> remorse" the day you sell it all. Although many on this site would disagree vehemently with me and that's fine, larger medium format still blows digital's doors off in terms of quality. I agree that medium format stuff is bulky, but that's just a necessary evil given the size of the film. Medium format cameras are not that well suited for stuff you would do with a DSLR for that very reason. But, at least in my opinion, the <em>measurable</em> increase in quality more than makes up for the bulkiness of the equipment.</p>

[gregory_king1]

<p>Well, you might have seller's remorse just due to how little you may get for it. ;-) I just picked up a good-as-new 250mm lens for $180, with two B+W filters that retail for more than I paid for the lens. Someone may have paid $2000 for it at one time.</p>

<p>I don't think we'll ever see a larger MF sensor. Unless there's a revolutionary breakthrough in chip fab technology, the cost will never be low enough to create a market. </p>

<p>The two advantages that have me keeping mine are the rotating back and the 1/400 sync. This gives much more flexibility in portraiture (particularly outdoor) than using the 645AF. Can I see any difference in quality on a DB? Probably not. And even for film it's more scanning area than I need.</p>

<p>But hey, it helps me burn through my stash of film 25% faster. ;-)</p>

[guy_e]

<p>I will never sell mine, and I'll tell you why - the polaroid back. It's the only camera I have that gives a decent size print on that wonderful Fuji instant film... I'm actually thinking of selling the pola back I got for the Hassy I picked up last year, because the print is so much smaller, and even worse quality-wise.</p>

<p>Oh, and the 110mm f/2.8 lens. I don't know of too many (any?) other f/2.8 lenses for 6x7 format systems. Picked that one up last year too, and it is hands down my favorite "go-to" lens for all sorts of things - portraiture, landscape, or just random putzing about.</p>

[mauro_franic]

<p>You can sell it to me so I can have a second spare in the office. I barely shoot digital anymore for things of relevance. What lenses do you have?</p>

[jim_momary]

<p>From an amateur viewpoint, I waited all my adult life to afford (justify) buying an RB, and now I have a couple with 4 lenses and finders and 'stuff'. Wicked fun and so cool. The image quality literally blows me away. While I only make a few large (20x30) B&W enlargements now, they are crisp (by my humble standards). I've sent out some color negs to be scanned and had big inkjet prints made. Also very pleasing.</p>

<p>I'll never let go of my humble, used pile of goodies.</p>

<p>Jim</p>

 

[christoph_sensen]

<p>I took a photo course in 1974, when I was still in high school and there was the Mamiya RB that we were using. Many years later, I finally had a job and the prices had come way down, so now I am the proud owner of an RZ II with some lenses and "stuff". Back to the future so to speak. Adding a Nikon Coolscan 9000, I have the perfect setup for my macro photography (I am a Botanist by education). I don't mind taking this rig out into the field. If Ansel Adams could handle the Large Format camera, I certainly can take the RZ II in my truck. I don't think that I will ever sell the camera again, digital has a long way to go before it reaches the quality of the 6x7 cm slides that I now take, and the simplicity of the machine I take them with. Lets not even speak about projecting 6x7 cm slides vs. digital projection...<br>

Christoph</p>

[phillip_cohen]

<p>You can try and sell it, but good luck. I have had my complete system listed on craigslist for over a year with no takers. I have every accessory they make, multiple backs in multiple formats, you name it I got it plus most of the lenses all in mint condition and I still can't sell it. So unless you are willing to give it away for pennies on the dollar, go find a nice display case and put it on display as one of the finer points of photography of the 20th century.<br />Good luck,<br />Phil</p>

[spud]

<p>I got my first RZ67 Pro in 1999 before a trip to South America. I got some great images back then, but only had a few lenses (110 and 50). Last year I upgraded to the Pro II and now have a full complement of lenses. Ironically I am heading back to South America this year (patagonia and back to Easter Island) and I will be happy to lug my big bag o gear and bag of film with him thru the 11 total flights. My RZ system has travelled to every continent except Antarctica and been up and down mountains and deep deep into the backcountry. I get laughed at often when folks see the sheer bulk of the beast when I take it out of the bag. And, since I was demoralized by the 100-200 zoom, I dumped that and have nothing but the prime lenses, making for even greater bulk.<br /><br />However, at the end of the day, along with my Coolscan 9000, I can create a 93 megapixel, 560MB 16 bit image of any of the images I have produced with the gear dating back to 99. Of course, if thats too small, I'll get a drum scan done. Add the incredible saturation and higher dynamic range of film and why on earth would I want to 'go digital' ?</p>

<p>Scoff as you may, but a small print for me is 20 x 30, so as they say 'size matters'<br>

Spud<br /><a href="http://www.onevisionphoto.com">www.onevisionphoto.com</a></p>

 

[markbristol]

<p>The reason I have been shooting medium format for 11 years is just as others have stated: BIG ENLARGEMENTS. My standard size for printing is 30x36 or 30x40. Scanning with a scan multi pro and then uploading the images to my favorite printer in NJ I get beautiful prints that, as has already been said, blows digital away and for 26 bucks for a 30x40 on metallic paper I'm in paradise. I have made many comparisons to my DSLR which just a few years ago was 7 grand for the body only and now can be had for less than half that. 30x40s made from my RZ have much more detail and sharpness than my dslr at 20x30. BUT if you are contemplating selling you RZ kit, maybe you can sell the whole kit for enough to buy a lens for a 35mm sized digital body or maybe a couple of 64gb CF cards. When people who don't know much about good photography see my prints, they almost always prefer those made from with my RZ. Also I am my own customer in that I shoot what I want, where I want and when I want (unless I am shooting someones portrait). So if your business success demands it do what it takes to stay alive.</p>

[jack_welsh]

<p>looks like everyone says , "Keep It"</p>

[jim_momary]

<p><topic hijack warning><br>

Mark-<br>

As a Jerseyan, which printer do you favor if I may pry? I'm tired of going to the far reaches of the US.<br>

Thanks.<br>

Jim</p>

[werner1]

<p>If the RZ does not do what you need it to do, then it is a lot of money sitting around that can be used else-ware. Will 6x7 backs be available for an affordable price in the future? I am sure it will be possible, but will there be enough RZ users around to warrant their production? ( I would love to know how many studios still use RZ's). <br>

I just bought my first DSLR last year (I know, a little slow to catch on). After immersing myself for the last year in the digital workflow and neglegting my Medium format, I have emerged from the experience completely frustrated with the file sizes and quality of prints at the sizes that I am used to working with. I simply cannot match the quality of print that I achieve with my RZ. <br>

I don't care about pixel peeping, I don't care about file size, I don't care about the theory , I care about the pudding-in this case how the print looks on the wall. With the current quality of films, with the RZ I focus on the art of taking the picture. I know that if the shot turns out I can do anything I want with it. I am not talking digital backs, as I cannot afford them, I am comparing to DSLR. <br>

I also own a Mamiya 645 afd and am contemplating selling it to purchase a 24 mp dslr. For my serious work, Landscapes and portraits, I am back to using my RZ. I cannot imagine myself indulging in this craft without it.<br>

This however, is an indulgence I can afford myself as unlike you Geoffrey I do not pay the Mortgage with my photography. Perhaps you would be better served with an AFD and digital back. One of my other passions is woodworking and I have a radial arm saw sitting in the shop that never gets used. It is no longer part of my workflow. I hang onto it for nostalgia with the justification that it is paid for, and I may need it for a particular job. Deep inside though I know it is time for it to go. You alone know if this is the case with your RZ.</p>

[a._t._burke]

<p>Mr. Moore...</p>

<p>If print size is important to you wait a while until 150,000 to 200,000 MP digital backs with a surface area about the same size as a 6x7 exposure become affordable. Of course, then you will need a body to use/hold the digital back of that size on one side and a lens that will cover that area on the other.</p>

<p>At that point you will be able to make a better decision than you can today.</p>

<p>ATB</p>

[paul.droluk]

<p>Like you, I have pondered this same question, and am still sitting on the fence. I have a barely used RZ ProII, and 37 Fisheye, 50ULD, 65L-A, 110/2.8, 140 Macro, 150/3.5, and 210 APO lenses... as well as additional Backs, Motor, 1.4 TC, Extension Tubes, Remote Trigger, Polaroid back, Grip, numerous odds and ends, and a Tamrac Rolling bag that holds <em>most</em> of it.</p>

<p>Most all of this was purchased new, though I did get much of it at student discount. However, even discounted, that was still a lot of money. Today, all together, it's worth $2000 to $3000 depending on how the wind is blowing. It's such a big potential loss, I keep procrastinating. That said, I haven't run a roll of film through it since I can't remember when, <em>though I keep promising myself I will</em>... and I've really got the itch for an 8x10 field camera.</p><div></div>

[lubos_soltes]

<p><br /><strong>Like you, I have pondered this same question, and am still sitting on the fence. I have a barely used RZ ProII, and 37 Fisheye, 50ULD, 65L-A, 110/2.8, 140 Macro, 150/3.5, and 210 APO lenses... as well as additional Backs, Motor, 1.4 TC, Extension Tubes, Remote Trigger, Polaroid back, Grip, numerous odds and ends, and a Tamrac Rolling bag that holds most of it.<br /><br />Most all of this was purchased new, though I did get much of it at student discount. However, even discounted, that was still a lot of money. Today, all together, it's worth $2000 to $3000 depending on how the wind is blowing. It's such a big potential loss, I keep procrastinating. That said, I haven't run a roll of film through it since I can't remember when, though I keep promising myself I will... and I've really got the itch for an 8x10 field camera.</strong></p>

<p>OMG you have my dream kit there. Just missing the T/S adapter.<strong> </strong></p>

[markbristol]

<p>Hi Jim M.<br>

The printer in Jersey is Elco Color Labs. Their internet special pricing can be found at:<br /><a href="http://www.elcocolor.com/poster_special.htm">http://www.elcocolor.com/poster_special.htm</a><br>

I live in California and I usually get my prints in about a week.<br>

Mark.</p>

[Dave Luttmann]

<blockquote>

<p>Scoff as you may, but a small print for me is 20 x 30, so as they say 'size matters'<br />Spud<br /><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.onevisionphoto.com" target="_blank">www.onevisionphoto.com</a></p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Spud, you've have some gorgeous images on your site. Yes....size matters.....not just for the capture medium, but for the print as well. People may hold an 8x10 and love it. When they can see a 16x20 or 24x30 on their wall of the same image....they are blown away. </p>

<p>I don't think it's purely about the resolution. On a 16x20, there isn't a whole lot of difference in real print rez from a 6x7 piece of film vs a 24mp sensor for example. But the look of the film, the way it renders detail, tonality, color and contrast transitions, is simply different to a DSLR.</p>

<p>That said, I've moved mainly to 4x5 for landscapes and have had an RB67 with a 90mm lens and two 120 backs with grip for sale locally for months....no takers. I was thinking of taping an LCD to the film backs to make it more interesting to the "digital wow" crowd ;-)</p>

[paul.droluk]

<p>Hi Lubos, I <em><strong>used to</strong></em> have the shift adapter and 75SB as well! But the amount of movements offered was limited and a bit of a PITA to execute. So when I need to employ movements I use a Horseman VH, or most usually switch to 4x5.</p>

[spud]

<p>I did a talk to a local photography club last week on the pros and cons of Digital & Film photography - being sure to highlight the true differences. Sure Digital wins on the 'convenience' side, however when it comes to overall quality it simply can't touch my medium format film. I had some examples on hand to clearly illustrate this and needless to say, I think many of the attendees' eyes opened about three times their normal size when they could see side to side comparisons up close.<br>

You need that kind of stuff in your local ad to sell the RB...<br>

Actually, if I were you, I'd promote the gear for sale to your local photo clubs or to local schools that teach photography as their students might be the ones who would understand the camera's 'possibilities'</p>

[lance_a._boyle]

<p>Maybe the fact that you like what you get through Mamiya glass is reason enough, Geoffrey, assuming you haven't found something else that you and your customers like better. Being able to skip the time and hassle involved with renting gear, and being able to pare down the bulk and weight of what you carry around, might be reason enough to let go of your RZ. The importance of the PITA factor is probably different for everyone.</p>

<p>From my perspective, which is as an enthusiastic amateur who loves shooting on film, dealing with the bulk of a medium format system is a trade-off I'm willing to make in exchange for the results I get. The migration to digital means that I get to enjoy a buyer's market for great gear. Having some idea of what you've invested in it, I can imagine how hard it might be to let go of bodies, lenses and film backs for the kind of prices the used market will support. It's not hard for me to understand why someone who has invested thousands in medium-format gear would resist letting it go for the hundreds it will fetch now.</p>

<p>It would have been great to hear Spud's recent talk and see his side-by-side image comparisons. I wish I could have been there with a certain family member of mine who gives me frequent ribbing along the lines of what an idiot I am for shooting on film when the "whole world" he lives in makes a 1:1 correlation between pixel count and image quality. Since film has no pixels, it has no quality, his logic goes. Yeah, whatever. This is the same guy who proudly refers to his Nikon D40 and its kit lens as "top of the line" gear. For obvious reasons, whenever he wants to talk pictures or cameras, I change the subject. But I digress.</p>

<p>My take on the current market for MF gear is that tons of great equipment is available, and it is definitely a buyer's market. What your RZ kit is "worth" in terms of what you've invested in it and what you subjectively like about shooting with it is probably much more than you'll get from a buyer who has looked around enough to understand what the market says is a fair price. Without running across an under-informed buyer, sellers of this gear have to bring their asking prices in line with the market or be content keeping it. </p>

<p>If I were on the selling side of a great setup like your kit that I'd paid thousands for, I'd think this market sucks and I might choose to hang on to the gear on principle alone. For buyers, however, it's a boon.</p>

 

[steve m smith]

<blockquote>

<p>Spud, you've have some gorgeous images on your site. </p>

</blockquote>

<p>I just wanted to agree with this statement.<br>

I don't have much to add to this debate other than the fact that having got an RB67 with a couple of film backs and 50, 90 and 180mm lenses, I would never think about selling it.</p>

[bob_everding]

<p>Geoffrey, I had such remorse I let my Yashica 124 go some 30+ years ago. I managed to find one from a small local photographer who was downsizing. Keep your RZ or tell me how much you want!!!<br>

Paul, please do not post that kind of photo pornography again. That is the most beautiful sight I have seen in MANY a year. That was truly a fortune when new. Now, the fortunate have the opportunity to use such incredible photo equipment that was, and will be repeated time and time again here, out of reach for most of us.<br>

I haven't used my Yashica that much yet because the love of my life is a wonderful old Mamiya 645 Pro. Even without a flash bracket (yet), the photos produced are stunning. And that is just the scanned images from my labs scanner. I need to make a nice 8x10 or something out of one of my slides.<br>

Bob E.</p>

[Lou_Meluso]

<p>I too have a complete RZII kit with a slew of lenses and am thinking of selling. Why? Because lately I've been shooting with 6X9 Mamiya Super 23 and LOVE IT! It's lighter with fast, large, bright rangefinder focusing, Ground glass focusing, rear movements and <strong>superb</strong> optics. And, of course, it's 6X9! I haven't touched my RZ or Bronica SQ-A kit since I got it.</p>

[thomas_benedict]

<p>I've decided to sell my entire RZ system (in nearly mint condition), as I'm simply not using it and it is a waste to let such a fine camera system collect dust (figuratively speaking). I'm selling it all for $1,500. Let me know if you're interested:<br>

RZ 67 Pro II Body <br /> RZ AE Prism Finder <br /> RZ Pro II 120 Film Back (2x) <br /> RZ 67 Polaroid Back <br /> Mamiya f 110/2.8 lens (with hood) <br /> Mamiya f 140/4.5 M/L-A lens (with hood) <br /> Waist level finder <br /> Really Right Stuff Quick Release Plate <br /> Manuals, caps, dark slides, and strap<br>

Email: thommanoa@me.com</p>