James Nachtwey Internship--A Complicated Tale

[dhbebb]

<p>In Britain (and I am sure many other countries) the traditional way of learning photography was through a 5-year apprenticeship with a well-known studio. Year 1 involved payment by the trainee (or parents thereof) of a quite substantial premium, which became less in year 2 and fell to zero in year 3. In year 4, the trainee got a small salary which increased somewhat in year 5. After the apprenticeship, permanent employment was possible buyt not guaranteed.<br>

The arguments then were the same as now: Internship restricts entry to the profession to well-heeled candidates, lack of payment indicates cynical and greedy exploitation by a leading practitioner of his/her status. As Nachtwey presents himself as a concerned and ethical person, the offer of an unpaid internship is particularly unfortunate - it sounds in any case as if the intern will be office-based and esentially doing the same as in any other picture agency - he/she may seldom if ever meet face to face with JN, will certainly not accompany him on assignment and may end up wondering what if anything he/she has learned. Internship is a fact of life in today's profession, it certainly (in most cases) speeds things up for those that can afford it, but as far as I am concerned, these facts don't make it smell any better.</p>

[george_peng1]

<blockquote>

<p>it sounds in any case as if the intern will be office-based and esentially doing the same as in any other picture agency - he/she may seldom if ever meet face to face with JN, will certainly not accompany him on assignment and may end up wondering what if anything he/she has learned.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That was my point - it's not that I'm against unpaid internships. But its fairly un-obvious that said intern will be meaningfully exposed to JN at work, given the level and nature of the qualifications requested. Put another way, given the list of qualifications, can one determine the difference between an intern and a paid staffer? What additional responsibilities and skill level might a paid staffer possess than a lowly intern in this case?</p>

<p>I think its one thing if you want an intern to hold your lenses, get your coffee, and keep your light stand from blowing down. It's another thing if you want him/her to manage your office operations and do your post-processing. These seem like mission critical type jobs out of the scope of typical internships. It sort of reminds me of people in the public eye (I don't call them "celebrities") who always demand freebies because of the "exposure" it will you get you, as if there is this perpetual rainbow of free you need to ride in order to get paid somewhere in the indefinite future. Seems a tad exploitive and frankly cheapskatey.</p>

[eric merrill]

<p>My objections about an unpaid internship are diminished when the guidelines Bob posted are followed. Those guidelines tend to rule out free labor for post processing, administrating office tasks, twittering, fetching coffee, or doing any other kind of grunt/busy work.</p>

<p>I believe that if you want an assistant, you should hire one for pay. If you want to give back and teach an apprentice, that is fine as long as you're not profiting from his work.</p>

<p>Like Jeff mentioned, until the world changes, aspiring photographers can either deal with the current model or whine. The latter isn't going to accomplish much for the individual photographer-wanna-be.</p>

<p>I see no reason, though, why anybody who is trying to exploit others shouldn't be called into the light, regardless of what the current industry practice is or how famous the exploiter is.</p>

[tonmestrom]

<p>if I was 20+ years younger I would already be on a plane.<br>

Seriously studying photography is a costly business, always. Sure, if one wants to see it as giving away free labour that's essentially true. 'But I agree, you'll more than likely will get a lot in return as well. And Jeff's absolutely right. Having a Nachtwey internship on your resume won't hurt. Big time opportunity.</p>

[fate_faith_change_chains]

<p>But, a <em>photographers</em> determinant resume are his photographs, and whether ot not they're of any kind that people consistently want to pay for, if that's the photographers goal. Surely not some piece of paper with names on it. For someone who's looking for a job as an editor, photoshopper...at a newspaper or magazine, yes, the name might help, and might even mean more than intention and results as the possible determining factor for getting hired or not.</p>

[tonmestrom]

<p>of course Phylo but that's kind of a given isn't it? But suppose two candidates apply for a job, both with very good work but one with an internship with a renowned photographer. Who do you think they are going to choose? Which one would you choose if you had to pick one and a pay a salary? These thing actually do help.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>photographs and whether ot not they're of any kind that people consistently want to pay for</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I've seen lots of people rejected who are very good photographers but couldn't show (or had any experience) with commercial work.</p>

[joshroot]

<blockquote>

<p>But, a <em>photographers</em> determinant resume are his photographs,</p>

</blockquote>

<p>As with many things in life, that is only half the story. Success in business has as much to do with all the little things than it does with talent. And "who you know" is probably the biggest of those little things.</p>

<p>I think we all know very talented photographers who are working in framing shops or became accountants because they weren't successful on the business end of things.</p>

[dbcooper]

<p>I don't have a dog in this hunt, but the advert seems to be all take and no give. There's no mention of any useful things the intern would be exposed to, while specifying a trained and ready-to-work individual. This leads any potential applicant to <em>assume</em> they'll see some benefit as implied by the use of the terms 'intern' and 'internship'. On the face of it, it looks like a dance around the labor laws.</p>

<p>As for building a résumé/CV, it seems to me if it were a legitimate internship, and given Nachtwey's PJ profile, the studio would already be networked in with at least some of the many schools and colleges in greater NYC and have no need to go public. Any go-getter non-student applicants with anything on the ball should have already applied. Something's not right.</p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>a <em>photographers</em> determinant resume are his photographs,</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That's not the way it works. The business of photography is about business, like any other business. A part of it is the photographs. Just as much is who one has worked with, how they work with other people, how well they deliver, timeliness, etc. I get asked "Who have you worked with" before I get asked to show my portfolio.</p>

<p>It's a nice dream that photos are the only thing that matters, but they actually matter less than timeliness and responsibility, especially in photojournalism and reportage. Posts crop up regularly that point out the photographic flaws of an image, completely failing to understand that the photographer got the photo and got it in on time and that matters a whole lot more than a better photographer who missed the event or took two hours to upload it from the event. Working for a demanding photographer or publication will make a far bigger impact on a job application than having nice photos.</p>

[fate_faith_change_chains]

<blockquote>

<p>"I've seen lots of people rejected who are very good photographers but couldn't show (or had any experience) with commercial work."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well, yes, that's what I meant with photographs of any kind that people consistently want to pay for, but which isn't necessarily saying anything about the actual quality of the photographs. An aspiring photojournalist might benefit with an internship <em>with</em> James Nachtwey ( and not only in his studio doing postproductionwork ) on his/her resume but he/she might benefit just a bit more with "just" being an incredibly talented, fantastic photojournalist, which in the end must always be evidenced in the photographs. I would chose the photographer for whose photographs I would want to pay for, which, if I was in the workenvironment where a name like James Nachtwey rings a bell, would have to be the most strikingly intentional qualitative work, regardless of past resume.</p>

<p>I was dreaming when I wrote this so forgive me if it goes astray...oh no, not <em>that</em> song again, : )</p>

[fate_faith_change_chains]

<blockquote>The business of photography is about business</blockquote>

<p>Nah, reeaally !? And the names of photography is about names. </p>

[jpo3136b]

<p>Bob, good deal. Your citing of those DOLabor guidelines was probably the most concrete and constructive contribution I've seen on this topic. Thanks.</p>

[tholte]

<p>Think about how much harder the intern would work if they got a little money and a little respect? </p>