Problems with a model

diegovaldes · August 26, 2009

I don't know exactly if this is the correct place, but here is my question:

I planed a sesion of lingerie in a hotel. i contacted a model and i said her the type of photos i wanted to shoot. She said she had no problemes in possing with any type of lingerie and agreed whit the shooting.

I paid a suit in an hotel in high sesion(a big effort for me) and let her stay in the hotel that night.

When the model arrived, surprisingly, she didn't wanted to make the photos i told her. insted of sending her home(i didn't want to lose the money) i replaned the sesion.

The sesion was TFCD and we signed a contract allowing each other to use the photos as selfpromotion, but without selling it.

When i send her the photos, she said that i can't use more than the 50% because some things like "i don't like how my body looks" or "they look as if i where drunk"(this ones where her in a bath with a bottle of beer and she was throwing the beer over hos head).

The grear question is:

I had a contract signer by her. Can i have any problems if i publish the photo on places like this or my own web page?

LEGALLY(and this is the key word) i can publish them. I'm Rright?.

You can see some of the photos in my "novedades-new" folder.

Thank you for your answer.

mikael_karlsson · August 26, 2009

Diego: Legal advice on Photo.Net is worth what you pay for it, frequently even less. I suggest you talk to a local attorney where you live that understands the relevant laws as they apply to you. Have the attorney read through your contract to make sure it would stand up in court if need be. Most attorneys are willing to book a 1-2 hour session for something like this. See it as an investment in your photography. If you're in the US, check the local Lawyers for the Arts - qualified legal advice is available through them at heavily discounted fees.

hjoseph7 · August 26, 2009

What were you planning to use the photos for ? Advertisement, portfolio, personal use ? you lucky she even showed up, some models don't show up, or even bother calling. Allot depends on what was written in the contract, but as you know "a girl has a right to change her mind" . I would try to work something out that is agreeable between both of you. It's not good burning bridges especially with models.

my-portfolio · August 26, 2009

I can't say anything from a legal perspective (Mikael handled that, talk to a local attorney) but I can say something from the public relations standpoint.

The answer really depends on what bridges you feel comfortable burning. Clearly you wouldn't want to work with this model again since she's incredibly unprofessional but do you want her claiming the same thing to other models in your community? Granted you don't want people to have this kind of control over hat you do, especially after you've made an investment, but I'm sure with this kind of attitude it would be pretty easy to get her upset and talking trash.

craig_gillette · August 26, 2009

Agree that a local attorney could/should evaluate the legal issues of the contract and release issues, etc. I would suggest being clear (in the future) on what kind of uses are permitted, while you may not be "selling" the images, public posting and display of lingerie or similar shots could suggest "privacy" concerns. The model might assert she was having pictures shot for private personal use and did not allow public display, etc. That might be a concern when placed in public galleries such as the galleries here. That would be in addition to any promotional use concerns. The contract needs to be based on local laws. It's not typical that a model can assert any control over the selection or use of the images except as permitted by contract.

BTW, since you have "published" the images, I'm not sure it's not "too late" to ask if it's "legal?" (Actually, it's not likely an issue if your contract was adequate, or unless she and her models circle frequent PNet. Do they discuss photographer "behavior" on the technical/artistic side, the beauty side - "bad light makes me look fat" or on the beast side? "He hired me for lingerie pictures, hired a hotel room and then wasn't interested in taking pictures?" If that's the case, the traditional chaperone goes a long way to limiting negatives.)

Spearhead · August 26, 2009

"a girl has a right to change her mind"

</blockquote>

She does? With a written contract, after the fact? What are the legal grounds for this?

It's not good burning bridges especially with models.

</blockquote>

It's not good burning bridges in general, but it's also not a bad thing with models. Unless you're mistreating them, it's not going to be a problem as there are always more. This doesn't apply to the big name model world.

kye_brown1 · August 26, 2009

i agree with a few of the other posts. I am not a lawyer but I would consult with one if I was you. I also agree that what is in the contract stands up in court. She signed a contract that stated that you can use not "only the pics she likes" but 100% of the images for self promotion. It is not completly your fault she doesnt like the way she looks in the photo, to you that could be the one image you love and vice versa. I would remind her of the contract and if all else fails and you want to really work it out I would only use the the photos she is pleased with and inform her of the same with the images she can use. Good Luck

aimee_pieters · August 26, 2009

It's best to work this out with her on an agreeable basis. Even if using the images she objects to is legal, if she brings legal action against you, you'll probably have to hire an attorney to defend you. Remember, anyone can sue anyone whether they're right or wrong. Yes, absolutely contact an attorney (at least for a consultation) and find out where you stand.....-Aimee

richard_weisgrau2 · August 27, 2009

An attorney's advice will be based upon the language in the so-called "contract" the model signed. The three initial criteria to be evaluated are to determine whether you have a simple agreement or an enforceable agreement. An agreement can be breached with little of no consequences. Breach of an enforceable agreement ( commonly called a contract) can have serious consequences. To be enforceable at a minimum a contract must have three elements: an offer, an acceptance, and consideration. Since you offered to photograph the model and she accepted and posed it seems you have met two criteria. Since it is TFCD it appears that consideration is also present. Assuming the forgoing to be correct, there is a contract. Now, the next consideration is what were the exact terms and conditions of the contract. Was it voidable? Did it set out rights of approval or deny same? Etc. It gets complex.

My guess is you will have to pay an attorney for reviewing the contract and for advice. Will you make enough money from the photos to pay for those services. If you reach an agreement with the model about which photos you can use, you will save money, avoid a hassle, and hopefully be able to put the images top profitable use. You will also not have a model who might badmouth your work in the photo community.

Signature URL deleted. Not permitted on photo.net per the Terms of Use.

diegovaldes · August 27, 2009

Thanks to all for answering.

The contract says... (sorry for the translation)

...

- A sesion that consist in Lingerie-Glamour in the hotel ... in Valencia the day ...

...

-The model yields the rights of image so that the remainder of the participants:

· they publish the photos in their personalwebs

· they publish the photos in not personal Webs

- they publish the photos inother media

...

-The photos can't be selled. If one of the participants in the sesion whant to sell the photos, must be with the agrrement of the others(model,photographer,makeup artist)

-the photos can't be retoched by the model

the contract does not say anything on the capacity of the model to determine that photos can be published or not

Thanks again...

batovision · August 31, 2009

you can do any of several things.....

you can tell her to sue you if she wants, that way she has to come up with cash for lawyer and likely can't afford one......... its a gamble...

you can call an attorney, pay them retainer, they go and talk to the model, settle out of court.

btw, you need to add a paragraph to your release where they also wiave right to final inspection or approval of product, explicitly, so they ain't got dp dang question.... kinda LATE for that last model, use for the next one....

OR you could only use the very very best ones and have the model pick out her favorites, save yourself the trouble of even looking thru them. I have friends tell me their favs from batches of my multitude, and I mostly use that...

besides, there's 100,000 new models turning 18 this minute, why fret over ONE? not worth the time, trouble, agitation, disgust, MUCH LESS cash at a lawyer..... if her photos were worth MILLIONS, it would be another story, but you plan on spending on an attorney to chase HOW MUCH? save the cash and send me half for saving you all that headache....

I by policy will take out of circulation ANY photo a model complains about..... our shoots have hundreds of photos, one is NOT a big deal... too many MORE beautiful ones to haggle about photos and WOMEN ARE NUTS about body parts - my dawtah's all girl rock band does great photos and THEY ALL complain about either: a nose, an arm, an eyelash too small, butt too large, butt too small, legs too short, body too long, neck too thick, neck too think, GET THE IDEA? after a shoot one model told me she hated her whole body so I offered to do audition so she can find HER OWN replacement to walk around and do her work for her..... one web posting later I had four new ones instead of that wonderfully delightfully tormented beauty, as she was VERY beautiful but just had a major complex........ oy vey.....

so, either be a pain and publish something provocative, or be nice and see what it is she likes, it MIGHT be the same as you like..... wow, what a concept!

pete_harlan1 · September 1, 2009

use the photos as selfpromotion...

I had a contract signer by her.

</blockquote>

Diego,

I'd have to see the contract; word for word before I would even attempt to render a opinion.

..and that's precisely what you will get, a opinion based on my experience; which is lengthy due to the area of photography I operate within.

You have TWO issues to deal with.

1) The Business decision

2) The Legal remedy

1) Unless you are talking about a lot of money, it would be a bad (business) decision to create ill will between yourself and a client.

2) Usually the legal remedy (if you are sued and must defend) will cost you more than what you might garner from the shoot.

I can win ALL arguements with my clients if I don't mind losing a lot of business.

pete_harlan1 · September 1, 2009

PS....

I was a bit surprised YOU provided the contract.

Most professional established models have their own releases.

craig_shearman1 · September 1, 2009

I'm not a lawyer but I am a former reporter who covered a lot of legal cases and have seen the way innocent facts can be misconstrued both in the newspaper and in a courtroom. All I need to hear is "model," "lingerie," "hotel room," "beer," "her in the bath," and "let her stay in the hotel that night" to know that you've set yourself up for a huge mess. Legitimate or not, this is all a newspaper reporter needs to write the classic story about the lechorous photographer luring an attractive young woman to a hotel room, plying her with alcohol and trying to get her into lingerie (or presumably naked in the bathtub). If you make use of the pix that she doesn't like and she tries to take you even to small claims court, it's a Page 1 story in the tabloids no matter how innocent you might be and no matter how legitimate your effort at photos may have been. Even if it never made it into a newspaper or courtroom, it's a story she could embellish and tell other model wannabees and scare them off from working with you. I would write this one off to experience, toss the pictures and move on. I wouldn't use anything from this shoot at all. She's clearly not a professional and is looking for trouble so turn around and run. Next time, don't try to shoot semi-clothed women without working with a professional model or without extra people around, don't shoot in a hotel room and don't involve alcohol.

diegovaldes · September 2, 2009

Thanks for the answers.

Creig, in the terms you are talking about, it's not a problem for me, because ther where 3 people more in the room appart from me and the model.

When you see descriptions of models, all are "PROFESSIONAL" and you don´t know what "PROFESSIONAL" means for her till you work with her... it doesn't matter if they do it for free or for money....but

Another question is...would be the same answers if instead been "Diego Valdés" a nobody photographer in Spain, i called "Mario Testino" or "Bruno Bisang"...?

Again, thanks for the answers

mike dixon · September 2, 2009

you don´t know what "PROFESSIONAL" means for her till you work with her.

Look at the quality of work in her (or his) portfolio, and talk to other photographers who have worked with that model. If a model refuses to provide references, move on.

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