Sheesh ... Street Photography is HARD!

[bms]

<p>... Just reread my post, I need to apologize for the typos.... I should really turn in for the night....</p>

[ray .]

<p>*&*^%&^*& * omg .......... Sheesh is right..</p>

[tonmestrom]

<p>I've only been on this site for a year and a half now so as far as any history further back is concerned I wouldn't know but John may have a point in one respect. Before entering this forum I was actually warned by a few people about the regulars here (I like to think I'm one of them by now) as being a tough crowd. Since then I found the exact opposite to be true. I don't know where that reputation originates from but it's a complete myth and I think that Laura's post here is proof of that as are a lot of others. Sure there are some opinionated "sods" who frequent the forum (and it's sure I'm one of those!). Elmo Short wrote recently that it was just because most people here are very passionate about what they do and I think he hit it on the nail.</p>

<p>Allen, while it may be true that it doesn't need a special temperament I think it's fair to say that it requires a few things that not everyone is able or willing to get into. Accepting the fact for instance that a lot of what you do doesn't amount to much, investing a lot of time and effort without anything to show for and most important of all entering the comfort zone of others (and consequently your own) is not something everyone is able to get into. It takes a bit more than pushing that button and gaining experience. If I hadn't done professionally what I do now for years I'm convinced I wouldn't be out there now, desire notwithstanding.</p>

<p>The concept of secrets in photography is laughable because simply put, there are none. While it may be true that some people are arrogant of misguided enough to think they've invented photography all over again most are quite willing to share and explain what they do when asked. There are even pro's (as in getting paid for what they do) on this site who actively spread such knowledge around because if nothing else they understand that sharing a technique doesn't do anything to undermine what they do. Even if they didn't, it's all out there and easy to find.</p>

<p>Laura, you just keep at it. You're indeed off to a good start.</p>

[songtsen]

<p>Good pictures, Laura. Interesting thread.</p>

[jeffrey_prokopowicz]

<p>The secret is to lift weights, get big and strong, and no one dares to say a word to you. Works for me on the street. Just sort of kidding :).</p>

[william l. palminteri]

<blockquote>

<p ><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=3887205"><em>Laura Delegal</em></a><em> </em><a href="../member-status-icons"><em><img title="Subscriber" src="http://static.photo.net/v3graphics/member-status-icons/sub2.gif" alt="" /><img title="Frequent poster" src="http://static.photo.net/v3graphics/member-status-icons/3rolls.gif" alt="" /></em></a><em>, Aug 20, 2009; 09:57 p.m.</em><br>

<em>I was so afraid to take photos of anyone on the street. I was afraid someone would come up and say, "Why are you taking my picture? Get that camera out of here!"</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p><em></em><br>

Or, you could take street shots where there are no people, just streets !<br>

Here's an example.....</p>

<p>Bill P.</p><div></div>

[mizore]

<p>People can be surprisingly open. Ask if you feel like you should, don't if you don't. Having insurance on the cameras can also make for a bolder photographer.</p>

[mizore]

<p>duplicate removed.</p>

[jfr1]

I think being unintimidating - small in stature and a bit of a comedian, helps a street photographer.<div></div>

[bms]

<p>Jan, Jeffrey,</p>

<p>LOL - opposing concepts. At 6'5'', I think people my think twice about charging me, but inconspicuous is something else.....</p>

<p>Ben</p>

[thomas_sullivan]

<p>welcome to Street, Laura....not a bad start actually. You have the eye for it anyhow. Just keep pushing yourself to get closer and closer. My ideal shooting distance is 7ft from my subject with a 35mm lens on a full frame camera. If not closer on occasion....and sometimes up to 12ft away. I mention the distance only to give you an idea of how one person, me, shoots. Admittedly, it took a while for me to feel comfortable shooting at that distance.</p>

<p>As far as people saying something to you, it has been my experience that the more I was concerned with that, the more they actually did say something. Meaning, I firmly believe that if you portray yourself as supposed to be there shooting pics.....people tend to believe it, and don't say anything. Ipersonally haven't been "talked" to about it in years. Actually a little scary sometimes.....that I can pretty much shoot anything I want....like I'm invisible or something. And at 6'2" , longish hair and full beard....I know I'm anything but invisible.</p>

[thomas_sullivan]

<p>repeated post deleted.....weird though, after hitting confirm, the screen bounced back to the confirm/update screen again, instead of going to the "back to post" screen. What's up with dat?</p>

[jeffrey_prokopowicz]

<p>double post, sorry</p>

[jeffrey_prokopowicz]

<p>Jan/ Ben, many ways to skin a cat, but I'd still rather be able to ground and pound someone if need be. ;) Comedy can get you killed haha ;).</p>

<p>;) ;)</p>

[william l. palminteri]

<blockquote>

<p ><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=1657057"><em>Jeffrey Prokopowicz</em></a><em> </em><a href="../member-status-icons"><em><img title="Subscriber" src="http://static.photo.net/v3graphics/member-status-icons/sub5.gif" alt="" /></em></a><em>, Aug 23, 2009; 09:44 a.m.</em></p>

 

<p><em>Jan/ Ben, many ways to skin a cat, but I'd still rather be able to ground and pound someone if need be. ;) Comedy can get you killed haha ;).</em></p>

 

<p><em>;) ;)</em><br>

<em></em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Size isn't everything, Jeff. In my life I've known a couple of guys that wore French style hats that were Kermit's color, and did some serious damage both abroad and stateside. Both of these guys were smaller than me, by a lot, and I tip in at a slender 154 lbs. As you mentioned earlier on, lifting weights, etc. is great, but there's more to it than that. Somehow I think you know that..... </p>

<p>I hope all these forum posters know what those smiley emoticons mean !</p>

<p>Bill P<em>.</em></p>

[johncrosley]

<p>Jeff Spirer,<br>

Nothing was ever alleged about 'secrecy' on this particular forum -- please re-read my post, or write me an e-mail. <br>

Either I was unclear, or you did not understand what I was saying. <br>

My remarks were directed toward the general attitude and direction of Photo.net in general over a very long period based on my perception as a newcomer 5-1/2 years ago.<br>

I did NOT frequent the forums so I have no particular comments to make about any of the forums except the Leica forum, which is what scared me off from forum participation at all. As you probably are aware, the Leica Forum became an academic case study of how a Internet forum can 'go wrong' with all sorts of member malfeasance and just 'bad behavior', and the academic article was illustrated with published transcripts of Leica Forum posts, includings its numerous troll posts, to illustrate its many points about the bad member behavior, and how it had been poorly managed (then). It was a dangerous place for anybody with normal sensibilities to tread, and ad hominem attacks were common, so I just concentrated on taking and posting photos and made the 'comments' under my portfolio and my own photos my own personal 'forum'. It ain't worked out badly at all.<br>

I always was much more interested in shooting, dealing with posts under my photos by my critics, critiquing others' photos than turning to the forums -- certainly in part because for long after I joined then (long ago) there was no really clear directory for us (then) newbies, or direction about how to use the site -- a complaint I made a month or so after joining this site, and which I just looked up last night. I never found a site directory or even good FAQs, that I recall - it was just 'sink or swim' and I missed out on major parts of the PN experience because of that lacuna. My first photo would have been a contender for Photo of the Week, I realize now, but I had no way to find out how to request a critique, so it never was requested, and never became eligible. ('Balloon Man', my first posted photo).<br>

So, no reflection on this particular forum, past or present. <br>

I have a very good general reputation for not exaggerating things, and for relatively clear thinking, and I think my reflection on the general nature and development of Photo.net over that five and one-half year period is pretty well-grounded, including the reflections I made about the tendency (now longer ago) toward photographers on the site when I joined and for some time after to tend to 'keep secrets' about what they posted -- except perhaps from their friends or clique members -- even if that did not apply specifically to members of this particular forum, with which I had no experience. <br>

John (Crosley)</p>

[rockpinault]

<p>Laura,<br>

I'm happy you made this post. I just started doing street and I never realized how timid I was to take a street photo. For the past 3 weeks I've been going to the same places and the people are starting to recognize me. It's making it a little bit easier... but like the veterans have said we need to preserve. I'm also more of an introvert... I hope this doesn't hinder my attempts. I can tell you out of about 500 shots I've only one photo. :)</p>

[knobstone]

<p>Since becoming a member of PN, it has been my experience that 98% of the forum regulars will help with any question that comes up, if they can, and if they can't will direct you to someone or someplace that can. The other 2% come under the heading "if you can't say anything nice........" <br>

I am still, after all the years I have been a regular participant of PN, still I am very much an amateur. But PN is where I come first to find an answer to whatever imaging problem I am having. In the parlance of my grandson, PN ROCKS!! Joe</p>

[jeffrey_prokopowicz]

<p>William, I don't want to go on about this since I was tongue-in-cheek in the first place, and someone on here is sure to get offended, but you're 100% correct about not being able to judge a book by its cover. Where the weightlifting thing shines, however, is because people DO judge a book by its cover, and even if a 150 pound dude could kick anyone's butt, human nature says that someone would be more apt to give a little guy crap before giving lip to a muscle-bound ape, and especially in a spontaneous moment if someone's anger flaired. Anger flairs, they see a little guy, they lash out; anger flairs, they see a muscular ape, they back off. :) Human nature. :)</p>

[eric_arnold]

<p>wow, talk about hijacking a thread.<br>

john, no offense, but your post is way too long and wavers off-topic considerably. i dont know why you didnt start your own thread or better yet, your own blog or website, if you were gonna plunk down that much cyber-ink. i've never seen anyone copyright a web post comment before (LOL), but rest assured i have no intention of plagiarizing it--it was way too long to read in one or even two sittings. not trying to be "secretive," i just wanted to respond to the OP's post, if that's ok with you.</p>

<p>Laura, i like your shot of the girl in the pink dress. it stands out to me over your other shots because there's a sense of engagement with the subject. remember the camera is an eye--if you approach a subject nervously or timidly, the camera will record that. if you engage a subject, that's how your pic will come across. in public settings, there is a fourth wall (to borrow a theatrical term) which you must break as a photographer to do street well. sometimes you can capture a subject inadvertently and get a revealing expression without direct engagement, but chances of getting keepers with this technique,at least when you're just starting out, are slim. the subject doesnt have to be posing, but the camera does have to reveal something in the way of perspective.</p>

<p>for example, in your first shot, the most interesting thing is the silver guy with the umbrella. in all likelihood, you could have gone right up to him and snapped a candid portrait from a close perspective which would have told a story. you might have had to put some change into his cup, but it would have been worth it for a great shot. instead, you focus on nothing in particular. it doesnt help that the other main subject is looking away from the camera. in the shot with the woman walking down the street, you almost engage her, but not quite. maybe if you would have let her get a few steps down the street so she would have been centered the pic would be more compelling. still, i think that's a good start. you just need to place your 'eye' more in the scene.</p><div></div>

[akochanowski]

<p>Eric's got a point: too much information from JC, much of it irrelevant. Laura, figure out what you want to shoot and the rest will follow.</p>

[ofey_kalakar]

<p>Laura, slap a small prime lens like a 35 mm or 50 mm and have fun!</p><div></div>

[ofey_kalakar]

<p>compose a scene like a movie director</p><div></div>

[Uhooru]

<p>Don't know about any secrecy, have never not answered a request if I knew the answer or not recieved advice when asked. The one thing John said, and sorry, posts were too long, and I'm too ADHD, but editing is important, and a skill I don't have. Any ways, that's for later, right now you're taking pics, and you've got an eye. Don't decide anything after 2 weeks! :) Some tips that might help to make you a little more comfortable that has worked for me. If you are feeling a little shy and not knowing how far you can push boundaries, find a couple of buddies to shoot with and go out shooting. If you find a couple of people that share your passion for it, even if you don't know them well, you get to know them and become buds. It's often comforting to have someone on the street with you. Sometimes you don't want someone, but when there a couple of you or even 3 or 4, people see that you are doing photo as an activity and art, and when they see the group taking pictures they don't get as uptight. You can even <gasp> engage people on the street and talk to them. That would be really cool. I've been at it for about 5 years now and there's times I'm absolutely nervous about lifting up the camera to eye still, but more often, I will meet some really interesting people. For instance, today a security guard from Haiti talking about the languages he wanted to learn and life at the pier where he's a guide. <br>

Also, when you are shooting with a friend or friends, make sure you stop at some point and grab a couple of beers. It relaxes everyone. Have fun. There will be times, though, when you are on a mission and need to shoot alone, but you will know when that is. Just keep at it. It really will become fun. Also, don't be worried about how many keepers you are getting.<br>

Think about how many pictures all the great published street photographers took, and how many actually got published, both a sobering and encouraging thought. </p>

[Uhooru]

<p>Don't know about any secrecy, have never not answered a request if I knew the answer or not recieved advice when asked. The one thing John said, and sorry, posts were too long, and I'm too ADHD, but editing is important, and a skill I don't have. Any ways, that's for later, right now you're taking pics, and you've got an eye. Don't decide anything after 2 weeks! :) Some tips that might help to make you a little more comfortable that has worked for me. If you are feeling a little shy and not knowing how far you can push boundaries, find a couple of buddies to shoot with and go out shooting. If you find a couple of people that share your passion for it, even if you don't know them well, you get to know them and become buds. It's often comforting to have someone on the street with you. Sometimes you don't want someone, but when there a couple of you or even 3 or 4, people see that you are doing photo as an activity and art, and when they see the group taking pictures they don't get as uptight. You can even engage people on the street and talk to them. That would be really cool. I've been at it for about 5 years now and there's times I'm absolutely nervous about lifting up the camera to eye still, but more often, I will meet some really interesting people. For instance, today a security guard from Haiti talking about the languages he wanted to learn and life at the pier where he's a guide. <br>

Also, when you are shooting with a friend or friends, make sure you stop at some point and grab a couple of beers. It relaxes everyone. Have fun. There will be times, though, when you are on a mission and need to shoot alone, but you will know when that is. Just keep at it. It really will become fun. Also, don't be worried about how many keepers you are getting.<br>

Think about how many pictures all the great published street photographers took, and how many actually got published, both a sobering and encouraging thought. </p>