christian_olivet Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 I am very new to B&W and I am enjoying it a lot. I am shooting 4x5 bergger at asa 100 and developing in PMK pyro at 80 degrees (in the shade) for 7 minutes. I meter from the shadows and put them in zone II and highlights fall in VIII. What I get is unexposed shadows and wonderful midtones and highlights. Sometimes I overexpose 2 stops and I bearly get detail in the shadows. Should I rate Bergger even slower than 100. Should I get my Luna-Pro F checked for calibration? Or should I try Ilford FP4 plus (Which is already in my mailbox) and see what toe and shoulder would do for me? I appreciate any comments. Thanks Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed b. Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 I give Bergger BRF 200 (the roll film version, rated EI 100) 7.5 minutes at 80 degrees in PMK. However, my understanding of Zone II is that it is just perceptably different in value from Zone I (pure black), but that you will not see real detail until Zone III. I have always metered shadows and placed them on Zone III. So, I think you have effectively underexposed the shadows by one stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_gasteazoro5 Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 With all deference to Ed (who BTW has a great site, all here should look at it for wonderful information!) I think Zone III is still too dark to get nice rich shadows with detail. I know, I know, Ansel Adams in his books said this, but try placing shadows in Zone IV and you will see the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_kravit Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 There is no question that Zone III is too dense for open shadow detail. I think that when people read that shadow should be placed on zone III what they are missing is that the texts are referring to the deepest darkest shadow areas. Not open shadow as you would finder under a tree. Placing shaded shadow areas in Zone IV will produce wonderful open shadow areas. I think that it was Bruce Berenbaum who suggested this in an issue of Phototechniques some years ago. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian_olivet Posted August 1, 2002 Author Share Posted August 1, 2002 Thanks a lot for your suggestions. My negatives are showing more info all the way from the bottom to the top. I thought that highlights would overexpose but as far as I can perceive that is not happening. I am ready to order zome azo paper and see what they look like printed. I look at the like I look at chromes but I think you can interpret a negatives in different ways on paper. Will see! Thanks, chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip_sweeney Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 I am a FP4 fan and do use PMK. It sounds like you may not have done enough testing. I do not see how you can practice the zone system with the Luna Pro: is not that an averaging meter? if I am wrong - disregard, otherwise you need a spotmeter and you must do the tests. with HC110 and PMK I get ample detail in Zone III and can often go to II 1/2 and hold good detail. I'd like to try the Bergger. I use a zone board for all tests. best phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip_sweeney Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 this is my second post on this and I see the original was in July. I hope you already solved your problem. I looked and I do have one of those meters, it is not a spotmeter. I tried to use that meter in my beginning days with the zone system and it did not work (for me). To me once I had a decent grasp of the zone system (working system) and the spotmeter, I came to believe using an averaging meter is really more complicated. I do use that meter for incident readings occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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