Exposing and developing long-expired films (again)

[allancobb]

<p>Hello All,<br>

I know this question has been asked many times, but after searching through the forums, the reams of information are wide-ranging and conflicting to the extreme. Therefore, I will take the plunge and ask about my specific problem(s)... I apologize in advance!<br>

I have some Verichrome Pan that expired in 1980. I only have 4 rolls (it's 127 size, so it's very hard to find more) so I don't have much room for experimentation. What's the best speed to expose this film? Once exposed, what's the best strategy to develop this film given that I have access to either D-76 or HC-110?<br>

Next, I found a mystery roll of exposed Tri-X in the basement that I'd say dates back to the late-70s, maybe early '80s... same developers, again, what's the best method for development?<br>

Thanks, Allan</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Opinions vary on this, presumably based on experience. My experience with older unexposed films tells me that it's best to expose generously and avoid the need for extended development. My rule of thumb is to down rate old films by half and give appropriately less development (use the standard times suggested on the Massive Dev Chart for down rated film). This seems to keep down the base fogging that's sometimes a problem.</p>

<p>HC-110 seems to have an edge over D-76/ID-11 for this use. But it's easier for me to advise which developers to *avoid* for processing old films: Diafine, Ilfosol-S and, to some extent, Rodinal. Those three produced mediocre results with long expired films. Diafine in particular exaggerated horrendous base fogging with a bulk roll of Tri-X that was around 7 years out of date, but that same roll did okay in HC-110. Some folks add a restrainer to the developer but this seems not to be absolutely necessary with HC-110.</p>

[allancobb]

<p>Thanks Lex! I'll do that for the VP and develop in HC-110 accordingly. I assume the Tri-X roll was exposed normally, so I'll just go with the old "original Tri-X" times in HC-110 also.<br>

Cheers, Allan</p>

[riton_mhilli]

<p>Lex,I have 20 rolls of orwo film and want to use them not for serious work.Tried the rodinal 1+100 with bad results.It seems that the developed negative had large diffused dark dots on it.Please can you explain us why rodinal is to avoid and why to prefer the hc110.Why hc 110 is better than d76.Thanks</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Old film is already exposed; the unexposed ( by the camera ) regions between frames have more base fog.<br>

This means the cameras exposure competes with the film that is already exposed a tad due to aging; ie gases; radiation; and temperature.<br>

Rolls of the same batch tend to age sort of the same way; if stored in the same place.<br>

Thus with roll #1 one can expose some say with 1/2 stop more' some with 1 stop more; and a few with 1.5 stops more exposure. After roll #1 is developed you have results that shows what amount of over exposure that works.</p>

<p>In some old bulk Plus-X pan 35mm I found in one of my spare bulk loaders; its effective asa/iso is about a FULL 2 stops less; ie like asa 32 instead of 125; its from 1976 and saw room temperature and probably alot of humidity.It was NOT in the film can/tin but the loader.</p>

<p>Old film is already exposed; there is no magical brew to remove the existing base fog thats already there.<br>

Old film is like old fruitcake; test it.</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Riton, a scan might help but what you've described sounds more like some sort of contamination or other problem affected the film, rather than the developer being a problem. Is it possible condensation or even mold, mildew or fungus affected the film?</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Old film is slower;<br>

it has a lower asa/iso since it is defined and measured with respect to the fog level of the film.<br>

<br /> As the film ages the fog level rises.<br>

<br /> The speed point which defines the iso/asa is measured where the density is so much above base fog. T</p>

<p>Thus with an unknown roll of old film one really wants to know what the base fog is; so one can add more exposure.<br>

<br /> If one doesnt add more exposure the shadow details will be lost in the base fog of the film.<br>

<br /> Verichrome Pan is tolerant of overexposure anyway; adding one extras stop even to fresh film was never a sin anyway; and was often built in to many Box cameras.<br>

Thus 1 stop extra is a no brainer; maybe even 2; good luck and try just one roll.</p>

[allancobb]

<p>Thanks Kelly, I'll try ISOs of 80, 50, and 32 for the trial roll of VP (I'm using a recently acquired Yashica 44). Then I'll run it through some HC-110 B using "normal" development times. We'll see what happens!</p>

[gene_gustafson]

<p>I recently (last month) developed some T-Max 100 and Tri-X 4x5 sheets that I had been hauling around in film boxes for the past 15-17 years. Most of the time they were kept in the refrigerator, but for brief periods, while moving across country, not so. Except for a few that got moisture contamination, all turned out unbelievably good. I tray developed in HC 110 for 6 1/2 minutes, some had been marked for N+1(developed for 9 minutes) and all turned out as hoped. The T-Max is absolutely grain-free. When enlarged to 16x20, and focused w/grain focuser, there is no grain to focus, just image. Remarkable.<br>

I think , as a result from this experience, that if film is not exposed to light or moisture, it is good until you process it. Expiration dates are there more or less to get people to throw away film and buy more (drug companies do the same with prescriptions).</p>