Longtime storage of digital images - whats the latest news

[nickc1]

I have read much about the issues of longtime storage using cds, and had recommendations for better alternatives

ranging from external hard drives, memory sticks and online storage to storing images on film. Having heard at the

photographic society last night about four different hard drive failures I wondered what peoples' perceptions of the

best solution today might be.

 

Thanks

 

Nick

[ianmaleny]

Good quality DVD's are about the only affordable medium. All magnetic media is prone to failure, and CDr's are

not very robust due to the way the reflective layer is only coated with a very thin layer of lacquer. DVD inner

workings are sandwiched between two layers of polycarbonate and are therefore less prone to physical damage.

Flash cards have a short life, around 10 years, and are liable to damage from static electricity and possibly

corrosion from atmospheric pollutants and the ingress of moisture.

DVD's are very variable in quality, and the only really safe bet are those made in Japan, which will be Taiyo

Yuden, irrespective of the name on the label. I recently purchased a few hundred Verbatim DVD+r's which are TY's.

When you find them, buy enough! I always burn two copies, one -r and one +r just in case I run into a bad batch,

and at the moment I reburn one of them every five years. I completed a reburn of my first archives just recently,

and all of the TY disks where as good as new. I have no doubt that these good quality disks will last for

decades. The lesser quality disks I had used as a backup for the backups where readable, but the quality was not

good, they had deteriorated quite severely. There are some other disks out there that are as good as TY, but the

brand names keep changing and it is just too much hassle to do the research to keep up with it. If it ain't made

in Japan, I won't buy them. Do not be swayed by the Big Brand name on the label, most are junk, look for the

'Made in' line. Also, if you ever come across any 8x made in Japan, buy them, and haggle for a discount because

they are 'slow'. They are probably the best.

 

My method is to use two burners, one Pioneer for burning, and a Liteon for quality scanning. I use CDSpeed

software for quality scanning, it's free, and burn at a speed determined by a number of trials at different

speeds. It works out to be approximately half the rated speed for the best burn quality, so 8x disks are burnt at

4x and 16x at 8x. It varies a bit from batch to batch. A burning program which allows for speed control is a

must, which is probably most of them except the built in Windows burner, which last time I looked only worked at

maximum speed, which is unreliable. I use Linux and K3B these days. There are plenty of free burners for Windows,

but I can't recommend one because of my estrangement from that system over the last few years. Most people use

Nero, but the freebies are lighter weight and cheaper. A search will find a few. Store the disks away from direct

light, on their edge and preferably two sets at different locations. Fireproof boxes are available for optical

disks at reasonable prices. I also keep a complete set on a large Samsung hard disk for ease of access.

 

cdfreaks.com is the place to go for more info.

 

I think that's it. Have fun.

[keith selmes]

I have lost files from CD-r, and from changing hard drive without realising they weren't all backed up somewhere.

But those were all scans and I have the film.<BR>

For a couple of years I put all raws on Taiyo Yuden DVD.<BR>

Now I put all raws on two hard disks in one PC and back up onto one hard disk in another.<BR>

The second PC is seldom used on the internet and mainly now used for backups.

My tiffs and jpegs are on separate hard disk on the first PC. The ones I really know I need are on DVD, and some

are uploaded to websites.<BR>

A lot of people now use network storage boxes containing multiple drives, or just external USB drives.<BR>

It is unlikely more than one drive will break down at the same time, unless for example there's a house fire or

flood damage, or maybe they're all subjected to malicious software (e.g a trojan)<BR>

At some time I think I should tag and prioritise my recent raw files, and back up a selection to DVD.<BR>

I don't expect I'll do all of them again.<BR>

The advantage to my mind with DVD or usb drive is being able to store them at another location in case of major

building damage, burglary etc.<BR>

[ellis_vener_photography]

Backing up on multiple hard disk drives and burning DVD-R's for me.

[ronald_moravec1]

Multiple separate external hard drives one of which I do not leave in the computer location.

 

I have also put dups on Gold CD, multiple copies, one of which goes in my safety deposit box.

 

I try not to fill my computer drive more than 30%. Get `em off and backed up.

[david_henderson]

Multiple hard drives, some of which are disconnected except when actually backing up. I have only recently started digital photography but have well over 100GB of photographs now. Long term keeping this stuff on DVD is not going to be an answer.

[sarah_fox]

Thanks for all the great DVD info, Ian!

 

I'll only add that I store mine on spindles in the freezer. Same principle for DVDs as for film: Lower temperature means slower deterioration.

[william l. palminteri]

Sarah Fox , Nov 07, 2008; 10:12 a.m.....Thanks for all the great DVD info, Ian! .....I'll only add that I store mine on

spindles in the freezer. Same principle for DVDs as for film: Lower temperature means slower deterioration.

 

------------------------------------------------------------

 

Could you elaborate a bit on this?

 

Thanks,

 

Bill P.

[Ed_Ingold]

It is not necessary to store optical media in a freezer and possibly harmful due to ice formation. "Burning" CDs and DVDs occurs at highly localized temperatures in excess of 300 degrees Celcius - the melting point of aluminum. The difference between temperatures under living conditions vs the freezer is thermodynamically insignificant.

 

My archival storage is on DVD+R's (slightly more robust data format than DVD-R) which can't be accidently erased and are safe repositories if accurately recorded (the main cause of "failure to read" problems) and protected mechanically. Save images by date and store them in order for easy retrieval.

 

I keep disk drives too - over a dozen 500 GB drives in external USB2 enclosures at this time. I get a couple of drive failures a year, but since everything is backed up on DVD's and Blue-Ray discs, I'm covered. It's really hard to find something on a bunch of external drives unless they are catalogued. The best way I've found to do that is to make a screen shot of Explorer to capture the directory list. I have thumbnails (Lightroom and Extensis' Portfolio) to tell what's inside the directories, but each disk is always "drive H" when mounted. I'm open to suggestions.

[ianmaleny]

Ronald Moravec

 

'I have also put dups on Gold CD'

 

Are they made in Japan? If they are the common made in India variety (Kodak?) they will fail. The Chinese and Taiwanese versions are also not much cop. Also the reflectivity of gold is a lot lower than aluminium and that alone will show errors. This is a case where gold is of very doubtful benefit.

 

Also, it is not the aluminium coating that is melted by the laser, but a layer of organic dye under the surface of the reflective layer, that's the purple colour stuff you see on the data side of the disk. Another thing, despite the big lies told in the 1980's about the indestructible nature of optical media, scratches and finger marks are the enemy of cd's and dvd's.

[sarah_fox]

Regarding freezer storage: Chemical reactions are slowed at lower temperatures. Long-term decomposition of CDs is a chemical process. Ergo, freezer storage slows decomposition. The freezer is also dark (no UV light) and is shielded by metal (less radiation exposure). I'm not suggesting that freezer storage halts decomposition. However, it does slow it.

[william l. palminteri]

Thank you Sarah.

This thread, and your gracious input, has helped to answer a long standing question for me and, I'm sure, many others.

I especially like the 'freezer' suggestion.

 

Bill P.

[royston]

Has any body got any comments or observations on the newer dual layer 8GB DVD format and what factors they might have in terms of lifetime storage ?

 

My approach is multiple copies, one on the desktop a weekly copy to a NAS - Network Attach Storage ( Big hard drive with an Ethernet port) and copies to DVD stored away from home.

 

The NAS drive is great - always on, can pull stuff onto my laptop and could if I wanted allow remote access over the internet as it's plumbed into my broadband router

 

Also having photos here and on Flickr is effectively another backup, which I hope will never need to be called on.