Magnum - is this

[mike dixon]

<I>"I can tell you if Bruce Gilden ever tries this ... "approach" in European latin countries, we risks getting beaten. And it's pretty obvious why."<p>

 

well that certainly says a lot about the people living in those countries... <</I><p>

Probably not. I've lost count of the number of posts I read on photo.net with various users talking about how "people" feel about having their photo taken, how "people" react to seeing a camera (or to a particular kind of camera), how you can't photograph certain subjects, how you have to ask permission or risk getting punched, etc., but in my extensive experience actually photographing people in public, I've seen almost no evidence that those claims in photography forums have any basis in fact.

[jose_angel]

Mike, have you experienced different reactions coming from people from different places, social or cultural/religious

stages?

[sprouty]

<I>"...have you experienced different reactions coming from people from different places, social or cultural/religious

stages?"</I>

<P>

Sorry to jump in, but I say no. People are people, engage them and they open up to you.

[sprouty]

BTW, go back and watch the video again. I counted at least three people smiling during the picture (or immediately after). And everyone else walked on by without the slightest commotion or concern. The one voice in the crowd was a passerby who said "not here" and continued on.

 

I think you're projecting your own feelings onto something you don't fully understand and certainly don't do on a regular basis.

[matroskin]

Rui,<br>

i don´t undarstand what´s the problem with his style of photographing? it's Manhattan! i'm fairly certain he wouldn't try it on Chicago's South Side or Moscow. at least not for long... ;) different places can have different aproaches to photographing people there. i don't see why you're making a big deal. <br>KN

[jose_angel]

The video surely has been edited with the consequent cuts... obviously the scene where the big guy chew the Leica while try to throw the photographer to the river has been cutted... ;) (Just kidding)

[mike dixon]

<i>Mike, have you experienced different reactions coming from people from different places, social or cultural/religious stages?</i><P>

I've seen some differences depending on location/culture, but I've never seen the kind of hostility or widespread self-consciousness that I often see mentioned in forums. My point is that it's <b>not</b> wise to assume that people will react the way that someone on a forum claims they will.

[sprouty]

My general observation is that people who are comfortable <I>talking</I> to strangers are comfortable <I>photographing</I> them.

[el_fang]

<i>I don't know about you, and I even believe in NY it's "ok" if you shoot a flash on someone's face. In Europe it isn't, it's rude and desrespectfull.</i>

<p>Was the video shot in Europe? No? It was shot in NY, right? Because clearly you know Bruce Gilden so well that you are SURE he'd take the exact same approach no matter what country or culture he happened to be in.

[rui_lebreiro]

Kostya,

 

Disrespect for the people photographed is disrespect for the people photographed, no matter where.

 

If NY people live happy with that, that's great for people who like BG's style.

 

Anyway and again, it's just my opinion. I respect others like it.

 

Rui

[matt_m__toronto_]

i think that's the discussion rui.... why do you feel his style is dis respectful to the people photographed?

 

like i said, when out in the public streets, you are giving up your privacy. cameras are everywhere capturing your image 24/7 in most cities.

[rui_lebreiro]

Matt,

 

If someone literaly jumps in your face and shoots you in the eyes like 50cm away, don't you fell... "invaded"?

Now imagine being done this w/ a flash.

 

This is exactly when "the photographer becomes unbearably obstrusive", HCB words.

 

Rui

[ryan_mcbride1]

aahahah awsome point rui, i was abt to swing the other way, but thats a great point. I for one don't like obnoxious photographers, but at the same time, its their style and they get it done a different way than i do. But it reflects in his work, which to me isnt all that impressive. his composition is really good for the most part. but his subjects are uncomfortable, and startled... and if thats what hes going for, he got it... but i wouldnt be voting very high for it as a judge...

[roger_smith4]

"If someone literaly jumps in your face and shoots you in the eyes like 50cm away, don't you fell... "invaded"? "

 

If he/she looks official I'd just assume they are there to do a job, like a TV news crew and I just happened to help illustrate whatever story they are telling by walking by. Nothing negative. I think that's just your reaction.

[sprouty]

<I>"This is exactly when "the photographer becomes unbearably obstrusive", HCB words."</I>

<P>

Please respond to the "three people smiling" comment I made earlier? Where is the great disrespect? Where is the

outrage? The entire video is a non-starter, except for the fact that it doens't fit with your glorifiaction of a dead*

Frenchman's quote.

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* did I mention he was dead?

[g-man1]

He needs a longer lens and faster film. Ugh.

[ned1]

I think one problem I am seeing here is the assumption that because he is with Magnum Gilden is an heir the Cartier-Bresson. He's MUCH closer to Weegee, another photographer who ran around popping a flash in people's faces (although in Weegee's case it was a huge potato-masher shot directly toward them). I don't know what photographic traditions are like in Europe, but in NY work of that sort has been a staple of the local newspapers since before my father was born.

 

Also, Gilden never actually sticks his flash in anyone's face. He brings his arm around so the flash is oblique and doesn't blind them, far less disruptive than Weegee.

[triomar_triomar]

I absolutely agree with Rui's words. I would love to watch Mr. Gilden using his wonderful and exciting photographic technique only a few streets up, in Harlem, for example.

[sprouty]

I think you might want to expand your thoughts there TT, because as they stand could easily be interpreted as racist.

[triomar_triomar]

S, I only see racism in your interpretation. By the way, let's review some words written above:</p>

 

Rui: "I can tell you if Bruce Gilden ever tries this ... "approach" in European latin countries, we risks getting beaten. And it's pretty obvious why."....

</p>

"Other poster: "well, that certainly says a lot about the people living in those countries... "

</p></p>

S, Do you get the point?

[sprouty]

I haven't interpreted anything yet. I offer you the opportunity to explain why you think Bruce Gilden should be concerned about photographing in Harlem before I comment further.

[ned1]

Last time I was shooting up in Harlem I got stopped by a large black man. He put thrust his hand into his pocket and pulled out a .... business card. He was a model and wanted to know if I could use him for anything. Then he complimented my on my Hasselblad.

 

Triomar, I shoot street photography in Harlem. With a flash.

 

The only time I was was ever assaulted while shooting was in a white neighborhood in Scranton PA, where I was doing architectural photography for a city-history project and was photographing the side of an old building and was attacked by a white man in a suit and tie who thought I was a pedophile casing the neighborhood.

 

Speak not until you have been there and done that.

[Tony Rowlett]

Don't be angry with the lion who kills the wildebeest. It is the lion's job. The lion will never travel to Kodiak or Katmai, Alaska to work in the mighty Grizzly bear turf. It isn't pleasant, but the lion eats. Photographers can be well fed, too. I personally would not like to be photographed this way, but Gilden's food looks delicious.

 

By the way, thanks for bringing him up. I remember seeing several of his photos (displayed in the video) quite a few years ago, and I'd forgotten who the photographer was.

[triomar_triomar]

S, you are not in the position to give me opportunities. Could you explain why you think my previous comment could be interpreted as racist?

[rui_lebreiro]

I previously said:

"I can tell you if Bruce Gilden ever tries this ... "approach" in European latin countries, we risks getting beaten. And it's pretty obvious why."

 

This is the same racism (none!) as saying he'd probably get the same outcome in Harlem.

 

Rui