Posting GPS coordinates of famous photo locations online

[justinblack]

I have recently encountered a number of people who seem to make a hobby of cataloging the exact position where famous landscape

photographs were taken, only to post the GPS coordinates for all the world to see. Personally, I have a real problem with this practice. Posting the location of a particular spot will inevitably result in excessive traffic, degradation of the area in question, and possibly

restrictions or closure by local land management agencies. In any case, it is far more rewarding to explore the world on one's own, have

one's own personal experiences, find one's own compositions (there are an infinite number out there), and make one's own photographs.

[sattler123]

I agree 100%. That's why I even hate photography workshops - 12 people who will all take the same picture from the same location with the same camera settings.

[Ed_Ingold]

I do it precisely because it annoys those who think they are the only ones worthy of that knowledge. Besides, some spots are hard to find, poorly marked or even unmarked. If newcomers use the same tripod holes, who cares?

[enlightened-images]

I agree in principle, but just like RF, you'll never convince those that want to do it that they shouldn't. While I've never been there before, the white hoodoos w/ the rocks on top have, from reports I've gotten, already suffered dramatic degradation over the last 10 years due to increased popularity, and ascending to the classic Southwest Trophy status.

[justinblack]

"I do it precisely because it annoys those who think they are the only ones worthy of that knowledge. Besides, some

spots are hard to find, poorly marked or even unmarked. If newcomers use the same tripod holes, who cares?"

 

Edward, who exactly feels that "they are the only ones worthy of that knowledge," and why do you feel motivated to

annoy them? The world is out there for anyone to explore, and great locations are out there to be found. They are

described in books, magazines, pinpointed on maps, etc. A little research is all it takes for anyone to find great areas full

of photographic potential. What I disagree with is posting exact coordinates to a spot that will, as a result, inevitably be

hammered by literally thousands of people over a relatively short period of time. I just don't understand the motive.

 

Beyond that, I have no problem with people visiting popular photography locations. I am disappointed when people

specifically seek out to copy other photographers' compositions. This is not because I feel that the photographer who

makes a place famous owns it, but because I can't understand why someone would feel satisfied producing a facsimile

of another photographer's image rather than finding a compelling original vision of their own.

[pjmeade]

Is this just a case of some people (men, I suspect) love numbers and playing with techie stuff and compiling lists.

 

But it should also be noted that some of the guidebooks to the Lake District that were printed in the 1800's, gave precise locations for getting the best paintings. Not much is new.

[gary_anthes]

This topic is debated here from time to time without getting resolved, and I think that's fine. Justin, if the places are "famous" they are already well visited and posting the GPS numbers won't "inevitably result in excessive traffic." If the location in question is extremely fragile or on private property, then keep it to yourself. Otherwise, share it. Personally I never photograph "famous" site as I think it's much more fun to discover my own. But I don't fault those who share. In fact, I admire them. As for all the people in a photo workshop getting the same shots, that's ridiculous. I recently completed a workshop, and one of the great values for me was realizing how many unique visions can be extracted from a common scene.

[sknowles]

While I agree with the thought, I can't fully agree with the idea. Like, how many people have tried to be at the same

locations of Ansel Adams images? I researched and took a photo near the spot for his Teton Mountains with the Snake

River (the actual is off limits to the public). Yes, there can and may be excessive travel to some spots from the posted

images. But I can see where posting locations will help.

 

First, I'm working on a photo guide to Mt. Rainier NP and adding more specific locations would help photographers better

understand where images are taken to help their photography for the short time they're in the NP. My biggest problem is

identifying the location in the many images taken by other photographers to see if it's useful for others to know beyond

the obvious locations. I can often translate the description, but GPS would make life easier (ok, and cheating).

 

Second, I'm also working on locating the images taken 1890-1900 (the 4x5 b&w negatives) in and around Mt. Rainier

(NP), and locations are everything because I want to take updated photographs (yes, 4x5 b&w negatives too). In many

cases only the negatives (print or scans) survive, without descriptions. As I locate the images I do intend to identify the

locations so people better understand the history of the NP.

 

I haven't given locations to my images, so I'm guilty of my own criticism, but this now makes me rethink that to add

them where I can and as I go. Thanks for the idea although it's one you're crticisizing.

[justinblack]

"... if the places are "famous" they are already well visited and posting the GPS numbers won't "inevitably result in

excessive traffic."

 

And if the photograph is famous (or even relatively famous), but the exact location is little known? This is the scenario I am

most concerned about. Posting GPS coordinates in cases like this could certainly degrade the location considerably.

[phule]

[[i am disappointed when people specifically seek out to copy other photographers' compositions.]]

 

I'm disappointed when people choose believe their approach to photography is more valid than someone else's.

People learn in different ways.

 

[[A little research is all it takes for anyone to find great areas full of photographic potential. What I

disagree with is posting exact coordinates to a spot that will, as a result, inevitably be hammered by literally

thousands of people over a relatively short period of time. I just don't understand the motive. ]]

 

Do you have any real data to back up this conclusion? What makes you think people are using the GPS data to

exactly replicate the shot? Why do you think they're not using the data simply as a reference?

 

[[i recently completed a workshop, and one of the great values for me was realizing how many unique visions can

be extracted from a common scene.]]

 

Indeed. And a great counter-point to the elitism that Justin is pushing in this thread.

[paul h]

What sort of satisfaction do you get from hiking with all your camera gear to a certain location and taking a picture that say Ansel Adams took. Why not save the effort and just take a photograph of his photograph, surely you can tweak it a bit in PS to make it your own! Also just going to a location to copy someone else's work is basically plagiarism, taking their shots is borderline copyright infringement.

 

Sure visit these 'famous' sites but look for a new angle, a new perspective. If everybody copies what has gone before, then photography will not develop (pun intended) and move on.

 

My two cents

 

Paul

[guytal]

I'm not sure I have a strong opinion on this anymore (I used to). Right now I'm asking myself if someone, having these coordinates, can get there and make the exact same image as mine, then is it really mine? Do I have anything to claim as my own other than just happening to be there?<br><br>

In my own work I try to create images that are unique and express a personal way of seeing, independent of exact location and for the most part impossible to replicate (not even by myself). I find it much more personally and creatively fulfilling. I'm not out to tell anyone else how to treat their own work though.<br><br>

Guy

[Ed_Ingold]

A GPS will only get you to within about 15 feet (unless you have a surveying-quality unit - and a mule), and not necessarily by a safe route. It tells nothing about the time of day or even the time of year. Consider the information as an aid to navigation and not an invitation to plagiarism.

 

Why would I choose to annoy the self-rightious? Because I can and because they react so nicely when tweaked.

 

As to emulating Ansel Adams, don't forget to bring your AA Commemorative pruning saw (as he was thought to use). The locale can really change in 70 years.

[kerry_grim]

I can just see someone following a GPS to an exact location that someone determined to be a hotspot, while ignoring all the other beauty around them.

 

I think a lot of the enjoyment of landscape photography is exploring and enjoying nature and that must come first.

 

That said, I am planning a trip to a Western national park next summer. I am currently reading as much as I can on the park, its wildlife, where the best scenery is, etc. However, if I come across GPS coordinates, I won’t bother to seek them out.

 

In a similar thread, someone suggested to visit an area twice. Don’t take a camera the first time. That person got it!

[w_t1]

I clicked on this thread out of curiosity, and this is hilarious. Don't understand all the fuss about "certainly degrade the

location considerably" What exactly do you mean by that? I hear all kinds of bogus speech floating around the media

about "degrading the environment" and just wondering exactly what your agenda is. I explore the world on my own all the

time, and it's often where lots of people have gone before. In fact right after this I'm going to highlight your home address

on Google Earth, along with the other gazillion pics that are linked in via Panoramio. In the meantime I will try to re-use

Edwards series 3 tripod leg holes.

[justinblack]

"I'm disappointed when people choose believe their approach to photography is more valid than someone else's. People learn in different

ways."

 

No one said their approach to photography is more valid that anyone else's. That certainly isn't my view.

 

"Do you have any real data to back up this conclusion? What makes you think people are using the GPS data to exactly replicate the

shot? Why do you think they're not using the data simply as a reference?"

 

I was referring specifically to posting the data online. I see no problem with keeping a personal reference.

 

[[i recently completed a workshop, and one of the great values for me was realizing how many unique visions can be extracted from a

common scene.]]

 

"Indeed. And a great counter-point to the elitism that Justin is pushing in this thread."

 

I have always been impressed how a group of photographers in the same location at the same time can come away with diverse and

unique visions. It happens all the time in our workshops, and it is truly an enlightening and inspiring thing to witness.

 

I'm sorry? Elitism? What?

[jpo3136b]

I have a standing order for a six-pack of Talent with most of my suppliers. They keep telling me it's on back-order. Do you

suppose it's sitting out at one of those GPS locations?

 

If you've seen my six-pack of Talent out at that tripod setup point for one of those Ansel Adams photos, please advise. Thanks.

 

You know, most famous mountains are in ranges where the hill next door also has its own adventures. I don't think I would

want to waste a whole lot of time with that stuff. It might be useful for those who have an academic or historic interest in

those photos, but other than that, I think those coordinates' usefulness would be negligible.

[jpo3136b]

Okay, maybe I was a little boisterous with that. Maybe they would be helpful to someone who was teaching a class. Like,

say you could tell people, come to my workshop, and I'll show you how to make your own shot just like that Ansel Adams

photo. The model is over here.

 

But don't all of those pro sports photographers stand elbow to elbow with scads of great equipment, only to have each one

come back with a different catalog of photos? It might be good to institute some controls in some situations, but I think the

whole thing would be over-rated. Probably not worth it most of the time. Probably more worth it to keep trying.

[Two23]

I think the whole idea of someone "making the same shot" is ridiculous. The whole thing about a photo is the light. Virtually impossible to get the same light someone else had. While I don't have a GPS, it doesn't bother me at all if someone wants to use and post locations on forums.

 

 

Kent in SD

[josylvestre]

I think this is very important to store geographic coordinates (GPS informations) for each photo because the technology permit it. GPS add precision to the date and time for reference.

 

Perhaps, I think the GPS informations should not be shared everywhere to everyone.

 

I can give you an example (this is not about photography, but its the same problems):

 

I published the data of a butterfly and moth survey I did in a not well known area (with the GPS informations for each specimens I collected) and since then, many people are coming to catch the rare species I found and they are degrading the nature and make moth population endangered.

 

I'll never publish geographic coordinate again, except for a scientific purpose.

 

I think we should do the same for photography.

[charles.dadswell]

My feeling is that Kent is on the right track, or heading to the correct GPS coordinates. Another person in the same spot will always have different conditions to deal with; light, wind, time of year, time of day, temperature, camera settings, lens used, tripod stability, composition and mental acuity. Moreover, natural conditions change constantly. Give them the coordinates.

[gary_anthes]

I think Jonathan makes an excellent point. There are times when exact locations ought not be given, via GPS coordiantes or otherwise. But I think 99% of the time no harm is done and others benefit from it. I think the photographer should consider each case carefully.

[Jerry_]

If, for example, you are on the north rim of the Grand Canyon, do you really, really need GPS info to know where you are standing?

[william_livingston]

In the grand scheme of things, there are far bigger issues to expend our "worry time" on.

[colin carron]

Yes, there are bigger things to worry about but sometines it is nice to worry about things that don't really matter too much. That saves us worrying about the really serious things!

 

I usually post the locations of my shots except for the odd occasion when the location is not generally accessible. I find it slightly annoying when locations of other photographer's' shots are not given. As said above, when taking a photo light is all important and no two shots wil be exactly alike.