abe_hollander Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 I mostly shoot in RAW (DNG) with my K10D, and then batch convert to JPEG for web posting/emailing. The last 2 soccer games I shot, I figgered I'd try shooting in JPEG (highest quality) yesterday. Beautiful, bright sunny day. But I get the same noisy results as I did in the fading light last week. So far, this isn't working for me! My converted DNG to JPEGs look fine, but straight from the camera, these all came out a little underexposed (the first one's not so bad), and everything not in bright sunlight is NOISY. Any suggestions?<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abe_hollander Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 noisy<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus maurer Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Underexposure like sample 2 produces noise in RAW as well. Can you see more noise using in camera JPG conversion with correct exposures as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elnoralouisa Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 For the second picture, anyway (which needed some fill flash), you had your ISO set at 800. With the K10D, you will get noise with that (even though I really don't see it). With the K20D, there would be little noise. You certainly don't need to shoot at 800 outside. 100 or 200 ISO would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abe_hollander Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 Yeah, I've gotten lazy with Tav, with the shutter speed so high, I kinda just leave it at 9.5 or 11 on a day like that. I didn't check those shots before I posted... maybe I should put some more examples up.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phule Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Are we supposed to be seeing noise with your sample photos? Because I certainly don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shots worth sharing Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 The second is just a very difficult high-contrast shot. Without flash, you're either going to under-expose the kid or over-expose the background--pick your poison. You'll recall I had the same problem last year on a similar harsh-light day. What metering mode did you use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shots worth sharing Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Question: On a day like that (for better or worse, not common in these parts), would it make sense to set the camera for reduced contrast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgredline Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Abe, The solution to your problem is easy...First I disagree with Debbie. ISO800 is nothing for the K10 ''IF'' the exposer is right, High ISO means fast shutter speeds which is what you want for sports photos. What you should have done is used center weighted metering for the constancy and +5 EV or +7 EV would have taken care it...Now I will agree that IS0 800 is high for the middle of the day. I would suggest ISO 400-560....See the bees thread by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abe_hollander Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 Well, perhaps this is the natural progression for me. Now it's been long enough with me just picking up and shooting, and now need to consider things a bit more. It's just that I didn't seem to have this trouble before, and wondering what's different. As I look through, I guess I didn't do a good job with the metering (like I ever really tried that hard, frankly), and - coincidentally - tried shooting JPEG. I guess I can't blame the file format... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abe_hollander Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 AND I know that Javier is so good with the JPEGs, I should listen to him intently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musings Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Abe -- if you're having trouble with noise in your photos and want to shoot in JPEG, I really recommend getting Noise Ninja as either a standalone product or a PS plug-in. I am not sure how the rest of the group feels, but I have found that the product is generally very good at cleaning up noise artifacts and the sliders give you great control. Later this week when I have my other computer back, I will post a "before-and-after" of the Noise Ninja results. I have been very pleased with it so far. My advice on the ISO settings when shooting action is to set Shutter Priority on the K10 and be sure that the auto ISO settings range from 100 to 800 (or 1600 if you're indoors in poor light or a slow lens). If you're stopping action in soccer, you should be looking at 1/500 minimum (which should be no trouble on a bright sunny day). If the camera ratchets up the ISO on a cloudy day or with a slow lens, you can try Noise Ninja and clean things up. If you shoot RAW DNG, Adobe Camera Raw has some good controls for noise, but the Ninja algorithms are much better with the task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abe_hollander Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 Thanks Jeff. I'll be eager to see your side-by-sides, and also about hearing how much $ to shell out for said plug-in/standalone. Yeah, I *see* all the controls in ACR for noise, but it's blindly fiddling with sliders for me to get it right, and then I want to apply the same fix to all 88 keepers from the day's shoot. 'It's a process!" (Billy Crystal, in "Analyze That"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musings Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 No problem, Abe. I will send you the side-by-side photos later this week. The Ninja has an auto profile feature, too, and you can see the noise reduction in real time with some of the tweaks. I can't recall how much the plug in was, but I believe it was less $100, maybe around $80 but don't quote me on that. Well worth the money, IMO, when you're dealing with noisy shots a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugger Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 I second Jeff's recommendation. Have had Noise Nija for a couple of years and it hasn't dissapointed. I don't consider it a crutch, rather a tool that allows me to concentrate more on composition and the moment than on how noisy the image will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgredline Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 I will be looking forward to seeing some noise ninja example...The one I use the std photoshop filter, but it always seem to kill detail.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musings Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Ain't no free lunch, Javier, and Ninja will kill some detail as well. But where the light is really poor and you're shooting at ISO 1600, the softer post-Ninja photos look much better than the grainy, noisy ones. Hopefully I will have my computer back at the end of the week and I can show some before/after shots of Hard Rock in Baltimore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abe_hollander Posted September 22, 2008 Author Share Posted September 22, 2008 Hard Rock in Baltimore??? Um, heck - you could show me in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musings Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Abe, Dude, I will certainly give you a call next time I am there! :-) This was actually back in June to see the AST Dew Tour that was a birthday gift for my two sons. We always seem to be at an HRC somewhere in our travels...it's become a cult-thing in the family. Rock on! -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abe_hollander Posted September 22, 2008 Author Share Posted September 22, 2008 I think I remember... the bike/board event? My sons (esp. my youngest - turning 5 soon) would L-O-V-E to see that stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musings Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 That's the one. It was a great event even though it was hotter than Hades that day in Baltimore. You can see some of the photos I took of the event on my P-net web page. I have others, too, but they're on my computer at home (where I am not at the moment). Anyway, if you get a chance to see the AST tour, take your son there. He would have a blast. It's chaotic as hell but really fun if your son loves skateboarding like mine do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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